Dems have gone Mad - Why?

Ralph 123 · Dec 16, 2003

Why have all the leading Democrats in this country begun to come out with all these conspiracy theories? Examples: Dean - Bush was tipped off beforehand by the Saudis about 911 Kennedy - The war was cooked up by Bush and Rove in Texas for political gain McDermott - Bush could have captured Saddam any time but waited until things were going bad to get a boost Clark - Bush planned Iraq before 911, Bush had a list of a dozen countries to invade, Bush knew about 911 Madeline Albright - Bush has Bin Laden in custody but won't trot him out until the election What is going on here? Have they all gone mad? No wonder there are so many confused people in this country. They are being played by irresponsible people for political gain.

bubbakat · Dec 16, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

Ralph you are absolutely right about that group but instead of helping their fellow country men they choose to try to make themselves politically strong. In the end I know whom I will vote for.

mellowyellow · Dec 16, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

creating fear among voters and divide and conquer seems to be the MO for all politicians these days. want to gain the senior vote? scare senoirs by saying that party x is going to cut medicare etc. oh for the day of real leadership! creating a sense of confidence and unity in this country. in the absence of this, what else do they have but fear... "ask not what your country can do for you, but rather ask what can you do for your country." (real leadership from JFK) M.Y. .02

JB · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

It seems to me that one doesn't gain any strength by weakening an adversary. This reminds me of one of Brother Dave Gardner's one-liners: "Quit complaining! I know what you are against. Tell me something you believe in!".

rodbolt · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

hello yep I gotta agree with ya again Ralph. seems to far fetched to belive. where were all these dems when president Clinton killed off a couple dozen marines while trying to get past the Monica thing in Mogadishu back in the 90's? if ever there was an attempt at gaining popularity and shifting national attention by killing off some marines that was it, yet I saw none of the above mentioned names then. anyway I cannot belive anyone had direct knowledge of the 911 or saddams hide out or Osama's. good luck and keep posting

snapperbait · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

"McDermott - Bush could have captured Saddam any time but waited until things were going bad to get a boost"..... No conspiracy there... However, I do find it a bit strange that saddam was captured less that two weeks before christmas.. Kinda like an early christmas present?.. "Clark - Bush planned Iraq before 911, Bush had a list of a dozen countries to invade, Bush knew about 911"... Yeah, I think Bush has at least half a brain, so he and his admins would most likely have a plan for dealing with iraq even before he took office, along with other countries that may be a threat, like a president should...... Duhhh!

Bush new about 911?... Doubt it...

rogerwa · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

If Bush had known about 9/11 before it happened then he is no better than Saddam. These are all allegations that the stupid public may actually believe. And beleive me the public is stupid. The same people saying this are the ones who think Bush is evil and Saddam is victimized. How refreshing would it be for Dean on the day Saddam was captured to come out and say: What a victory for the American people. With him out of the way we can finally close that chapter and spend more time in increasing our welfare payments. There has to be a forum for the democratic message. This is a necessary balance. However, the democrats are not seeing the forest for the trees. I almost puked when I read an article with Hillary that said that 'we' must take back the White House and alluded to litigation if Bush won the election. They just don't get it.

Ralph 123 · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

This kinda says it all... No wonder they are going crazy! A man they considered a moron, fool, pretender, liar, etc,. has had so much success! It eats them alive!

mellowyellow · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

LOL 4 real good to have ya back Ralph

plywoody · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

They could be saying that because some of them are demonstrably true. Iraq, for example. The neo-cons in this administration, along with individuals on the Defense Policy Board (such as Richard Perle) published a treatise called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" which documents all sorts of percieved world problem areas, force levels, and so on. In it, it suggests the Iran, Iraq, North Korea "axis of evil". It goes on to say that in order to do anything dramatic, we would need some sort of "Pearl Harbor" event, which of course was what 9-11 was. That's why there was a constant selling of Saddam's role in 9-11, which appeared to be based largely on intelligence provided by the Iraqi National Congress, and Chilabi, who has a clear agenda of taking power himself, and denied by agencies at the time like the CIA. They also included things they absolutely knew to be false in the state of the union speech, like the nuclear information, for example. This was clearly a war long planned, documented, and 9-11 gave the excuse and opportunity to get it done, and not the reason. Did Bush know 9-11 was coming? I have no idea, but why does he want to hide the intelligence, and once there was an official congressional inquiry, why has he consistently refused to fund it so that it can get its job done? Who knows? One would think that everyone would like to know all the details possible to try to avoid a repeat happening, but that does not seem to be the case with this administration, for whatever reason.

Ralph 123 · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

Is your name really Howard Dean or Oliver Stone? Ideas and statements like these spell the beginning of the end of the "Democratic wing of the Democratic party" because the vast majority of Americans know better. I bet you think we have a space ship in Area 51 too

Know anybody abducted by aliens by any chance? Did Nixon kill Kennedy too or was it LBJ - no wait, a Lib would never do that - what was I thinking? Why is it only people outside your party have conspiracies and Dems have none?

NOSLEEP · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

LOL.. plywoody he must hide intelligence for the same reason you do.. I had to say that, you left your self open.

12Footer · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

PLYWOODY Said,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They could be saying that because some of them are demonstrably true. Iraq, for example. The neo-cons in this administration, along with individuals on the Defense Policy Board (such as Richard Perle) published a treatise called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" which documents all sorts of percieved world problem areas, force levels, and so on. In it, it suggests the Iran, Iraq, North Korea "axis of evil". It goes on to say that in order to do anything dramatic, we would need some sort of "Pearl Harbor" event, which of course was what 9-11 was. That's why there was a constant selling of Saddam's role in 9-11, which appeared to be based largely on intelligence provided by the Iraqi National Congress, and Chilabi, who has a clear agenda of taking power himself, and denied by agencies at the time like the CIA. They also included things they absolutely knew to be false in the state of the union speech, like the nuclear information, for example. This was clearly a war long planned, documented, and 9-11 gave the excuse and opportunity to get it done, and not the reason. Did Bush know 9-11 was coming? I have no idea, but why does he want to hide the intelligence, and once there was an official congressional inquiry, why has he consistently refused to fund it so that it can get its job done? Who knows? One would think that everyone would like to know all the details possible to try to avoid a repeat happening, but that does not seem to be the case with this administration, for whatever reason. "

Allrighty then. Again, Rush Limbaugh submits enlightenment an issue; He said in today's broadcast ,(I'm paraphrasing);"The more insane and XFiles-like the party gets, the funnier they are. and because they are so funny, they should only be laughed at. ROFLMAO!!! Did y'all hear the latest bilge from Mike Moore? I was rolling on the floor!

12Footer · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

I couldn't resist!! I had to go get this one. They are imploding inward opon the foundation of lies they keep making. I feel so sorry for all those missled, but then-- they had access to the truth, and chose the "flying saucers". So sad and so funny. But you can't take the stuff below with any respect to the facts. That's wht they are so funny---here goes; Board: This was... Emailed to me a few minutes ago. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! We Finally Got Our Frankenstein... and He Was In a Spider Hole! -- by Michael Moore December 14, 2003 Thank God Saddam is finally back in American hands! He must have really missed us. Man, he sure looked bad! But, at least he got a free dental exam today. That's something most Americans can't get. America used to like Saddam. We LOVED Saddam. We funded him. We armed him. We helped him gas Iranian troops. But then he screwed up. He invaded the dictatorship of Kuwait and, in doing so, did the worst thing imaginable -- he threatened an even BETTER friend of ours: the dictatorship of Saudi Arabia, and its vast oil reserves. The Bushes and the Saudi royal family were and are close business partners, and Saddam, back in 1990, committed a royal blunder by getting a little too close to their wealthy holdings. Things went downhill for Saddam from there. But it wasn't always that way. Saddam was our good friend and ally. We supported his regime. It wasnt the first time we had helped a murderer. We liked playing Dr. Frankenstein. We created a lot of monsters -- the Shah of Iran, Somoza of Nicaragua, Pinochet of Chile -- and then we expressed ignorance or shock when they ran amok and massacred people. We liked Saddam because he was willing to fight the Ayatollah. So we made sure that he got billions of dollars to purchase weapons. Weapons of mass destruction. That's right, he had them. We should know -- we gave them to him! We allowed and encouraged American corporations to do business with Saddam in the 1980s. That's how he got chemical and biological agents so he could use them in chemical and biological weapons. Here's the list of some of the stuff we sent him (according to a 1994 U.S. Senate report): * Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax. * Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin. * Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart. * Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs. * Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness. * Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance. And here are some of the American corporations who helped to prop Saddam up by doing business with him: AT&T, Bechtel, Caterpillar, Dow Chemical, Dupont, Kodak, Hewlett-Packard, and IBM (for a full list of companies and descriptions of how they helped Saddam, go here). We were so cozy with dear old Saddam that we decided to feed him satellite images so he could locate where the Iranian troops were. We pretty much knew how he would use the information, and sure enough, as soon as we sent him the spy photos, he gassed those troops. And we kept quiet. Because he was our friend, and the Iranians were the "enemy." A year after he first gassed the Iranians, we reestablished full diplomatic relations with him! Later he gassed his own people, the Kurds. You would think that would force us to disassociate ourselves from him. Congress tried to impose economic sanctions on Saddam, but the Reagan White House quickly rejected that idea -- they wouldnt let anything derail their good buddy Saddam. We had a virtual love fest with this Frankenstein whom we (in part) created. And, just like the mythical Frankenstein, Saddam eventually spun out of control. He would no longer do what he was told by his master. Saddam had to be caught. And now that he has been brought back from the wilderness, perhaps he will have something to say about his creators. Maybe we can learn something... interesting. Maybe Don Rumsfeld could smile and shake Saddam's hand again. Just like he did when he went to see him in 1983 (see the photo here). Maybe we never would have been in the situation we're in if Rumsfeld, Bush, Sr., and company hadn't been so excited back in the 80s about their friendly monster in the desert. Meanwhile, anybody know where the guy is who killed 3,000 people on 9/11? Our other Frankenstein?? Maybe he's in a mouse hole. So many of our little monsters, so little time before the next election. Stay strong, Democratic candidates. Quit sounding like a bunch of wusses. These ######## sent us to war on a lie, the killing will not stop, the Arab world hates us with a passion, and we will pay for this out of our pockets for years to come. Nothing that happened today (or in the past 9 months) has made us ONE BIT safer in our post-9/11 world. Saddam was never a threat to our national security. Only our desire to play Dr. Frankenstein dooms us all. Yours, Michael Moore mmflint@aol.com http://www.michaelmoore.com For a look back to the better times of our relationship with Saddam Hussein, see the following: Patrick E. Tyler, "Officers say U.S. aided Iraq in war despite use of gas, New York Times, August 18, 2002. "U.S. Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual Use Exports to Iraq and their possible impact on health consequences of the Gulf War," 1994 Report by the Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affiars. William Blum's cover story in the April 1998 issue of The Progressive, "Anthrax for Export. Jim Crogan's April 25-May 1, 2003 report in the LA Weekly, "Made in the USA, Part III: The Dishonor Roll." "Iraq: U.S. military items exported or transferred to Iraq in the 1980s," United States General Accounting Office, released February 7, 1994. "U.S. had key role in Iraq buildup; trade in chemical arms allowed despite their use on Iranians and Kurds," Washington Post, December 30, 2002.

Skinnywater · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

plywoody wrote:

Did Bush know 9-11 was coming? I have no idea, but why does he want to hide the intelligence, and once there was an official congressional inquiry, why has he consistently refused to fund it so that it can get its job done?

Ply?!!! If your here to hone those debating skills why would you be dull your arguements to total irrelevance? Psst.... The executive branch doesn't do the funding. I'm sorry you posted what you did. You took all the fun out of debating you.

Take care and happy days Ply.

Ralph 123 · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

Don't confuse him with the facts...

dhud64 · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

I smell a "vast LEFT wing conspiracy theory".

plywoody · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

It isn't getting funded at the president's request. And the report is not getting finished, and the secret reports on 9-11 remain secret. Oh, and it is no conspiracy. A conspiracy requires secrecy in implementation, and they make no secrets about their tactics. The White House will even leak the name of a covert CIA agent if her husband dares to cross the President. Luckily, we found out even before the investigation began from our President that we are not likely to find out who leaked it. And I guess he was right, for we certainly have not heard anymore about it. What a shock. Nope, no conspiracy here. It is out and out open and blatant. And disgusting.

Ralph 123 · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

Right. What about the memo from Rockerfeller that talked about how to turn the whole investigation into a political issue just before the election in order to have maximum impact? You know, the memo that said, let's cooperate until the election and then claim the Republican's are dragging their feet and make political hay out of it. You know, the first time ever that historically bipartsan committee has ever been used for partisan purposes. Yup, that one. The only thing at issue was the admin turning over his daily security briefing which has never, ever been made public in history. But again, I don't want to confuse you with the facts. It would blow your whole theory that the President of the United States of America allowed terrorists to kill 3,000 citizens and destroy two national landmarks just so he could go to war with Saddam. Get real. If you are looking to place blame for those deaths you got the wrong President.

timothyl · Dec 17, 2003

Re: Dems have gone Mad - Why?

I guess we have come full circle. The same accusations were said about Franklin D. Roosevelt ( A Democrat) following World War II. Granted both Presidents were possibly looking for excuses to enter war, the idea "needing to allow" the senseless death of innocent people is completely ridiculous. At both times, each President knew full well that public support for needed action was present, all they had to do was prepare for and stop the attack. THe American people may be slow, but as a whole, its not stupid. Granted, in retrospect, that evidence shows that both Presidents may have had an idea that attacks were possible, it is the same thing as when a friend committs suicide. Just because the signs are there, doesn't mean they were purposly overlooked. It is so easy to monday morning quarterback after the game is over but to actually call the shots in a very fluid situation such as world politics is a daunting task to say the least. To say that Bush knew about 9/11 and allowed it to take place is completly ridiculous. Yes evidence shows that subtle hints were present but Bush only had available information that was gathered by the previous administration. For those that say that someone "in the know" was aware of the impending attacks prior to 9/11, I will supply you with The Fox Network address and maybe you can get an all knew season of x-files. Plywoody, exactly how long did it take the previous administration to find those pesky Whitewater files and where were they? oh, thats right, in the bedroom. But yea, I guess no one went in there too much, what with Bill prefering the Oval office and Hillary campaigning for New York Senate and all.

Dems have gone Mad - Why?

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