Force 125 on 88 Bayliner, no spark on top 2 cylinders, not sure about CDI.

[Justtlsnew]

Greetings and thanks for reading my post. Ive owned a few boats but have not done a lot of service to outboards. Got this boat about a week ago, got it running but was backfiring. Tried new plugs and seafoam, eventually found out the top 2 of the 4 cylinders were not getting any spark. When I pull the wire of 1 or 2 no change in the way in runs. I found lots of info here and have tried swapping out coil packs with the bottom cylinder but the problem stayed the same so it would seem the coil pack is fine. I was about to try swapping the blu/yellow wire from the stator to the CDI but it appears that the onlu one of the CDI modules has the blu/yellow. The older looking CDI appears to have a off white looking wire in the same position, Im confused. Should I swap the blu/yello stripe wire on the block with the off wht wire on the block? What is the best way to isolate the CDI module. Keep in mind im ok with a wrench but electronics not my core strength and I don't have anything for testing other than a light that shows power no power. Thank you for any info. My best to you and yours....

 

[Jiggz]

Coil packs are the coils with plug wires on them. The CD modules (CDM) are the power packs that connects to the coil packs. Each CDM has two circuits that provide power to the coils for 1 and 2 and another CDM for 3 and 4 coils. The CDM's are triggered or get enegized by a low voltage input from the trigger coil.

Since you are experiencing loss of spark on both 1 and 2 cylinders, it would indicate the CDM feeding these cylinders must not be working. You can verify this by switching it with the CDM feeding 3 and 4, assuming they are identical.

The CDM's get its power from the stator usually blue and yellow wires depending on year and model.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Test the stator first.
You can't do the DVA tests but can test the resistance.
If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above.​

Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK
Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.

1. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading s should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
2. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

 

[Justtlsnew]

Coil packs are the coils with plug wires on them. The CD modules (CDM) are the power packs that connects to the coil packs. Each CDM has two circuits that provide power to the coils for 1 and 2 and another CDM for 3 and 4 coils. The CDM's are triggered or get enegized by a low voltage input from the trigger coil.

Since you are experiencing loss of spark on both 1 and 2 cylinders, it would indicate the CDM feeding these cylinders must not be working. You can verify this by switching it with the CDM feeding 3 and 4, assuming they are identical.

The CDM's get its power from the stator usually blue and yellow wires depending on year and model.

Thanks for the help! As I mentioned, I did try swap the coil pack from 4 to 1 and the problem stayed the same. I was going to try swapping the connections to the CDM but it appears that one of them, the with the working cylinders 3,4, is newer and has the yellow/blue wire while the other with the not working cylinders connected 1,2, does NOT have the Yellow/Blue wire or the CD sticker on the front. In the place where the other CDM has Blue/yellow the older CDM has light brown off white, any idea of what im looking at with the different wire, was that maybe original ? Thanks again.

 

[Justtlsnew]

Test the stator first.
You can't do the DVA tests but can test the resistance.
If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above.​

Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK
Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.

1. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading s should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
2. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

Greetings and thanks for your help. What book should I be using or is a sticky available for testing the stator? Also what equipment do I need to test the stator? Thanks again for your help, I really appreciated your time.

 

[kbh121956]

To check for ohms you will need a volt ohm meter (VOM). A simple one will do, AutoZone even harbor freight has them. The best book that you can buy is a factory service manual, eBay is the best source for finding them.

 

[jerryjerry05]

outboardignitiondotcom
The test procedures are there.
You'll need an analog meter.

The more advanced tests need a DVA or peak reading volt meter.
You can buy one or make it as some have done here.

READ THE STICKEYS!!!

 

[Justtlsnew]

Thank you all for your input, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me. I was looking at parts available and found out that many of the CD modules for sale claiming to be from or for a 1988 force are black and not blue like on my engine, whats the difference and does it matter if you have a the old blue one mixed a black one? Sorry for my ignorance, ive never seen the inside of an outboard before this. Thanks again for your time.

 

[legalfee]

I'm seeing this CDI part nmber but it says no RPM limit or tach output.
Force Ignition Pack: 116-3301

 

[Jiggz]

Thanks for the help! As I mentioned, I did try swap the coil pack from 4 to 1 and the problem stayed the same. I was going to try swapping the connections to the CDM but it appears that one of them, the with the working cylinders 3,4, is newer and has the yellow/blue wire while the other with the not working cylinders connected 1,2, does NOT have the Yellow/Blue wire or the CD sticker on the front. In the place where the other CDM has Blue/yellow the older CDM has light brown off white, any idea of what im looking at with the different wire, was that maybe original ? Thanks again.

The original color of the stator wires for the CDM on the 88-125HP is blue and yellow. The brown/yellow and brown/blue wires is most likely a used replacement from an 85 HP. And yes to verify it is the CDM that is faulty, you can still swap the two CDM's and if the problem follows, meaning the non-spark moves to 3 and 4 cylinders, then the problem is obviously a faulty CDM.

Another easier option is just to switch the stator wires between the two CDM's. This is less work since you do not have to disconnect and reconnect the trigger wires. If you do this, if the non-spark moves to 3 and 4, but 1 and 2 has sparks then it means the stator has bad wiring or faulty. If the non-spark does not move, no spark on 1 and 2, but 3 and 4 continue to have sparks, then CDM feeding 1 and 2 is faulty.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The blue vs the black.
The black is the later upgraded model.
They can be used but the wire connectors(black) were changed so you have to use black coils.

I've not seen any difference in blue or black other than the connectors.

 

[Justtlsnew]

Greetings and thanks for your help. What book should I be using or is a sticky available for testing the stator? Also what equipment do I need to test the stator? Thanks again for your help, I really appreciated your time.

What do I disconnect from the rectifier? The red positive cable or the stator wire? Turns out I should have spent the money on a tester instead of assuming the stator was bad. Turns out I am get some spark on 1 & 2 because I get a little shock when I pull the wires with insulated gloves on but the sound doesn't change even when removing both 1 & 2 wires. Im so stupid sometimes, I think senility is setting in.

 

[Justtlsnew]

Test the stator first.
You can't do the DVA tests but can test the resistance.
If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above.​

Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK
Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.

1. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading s should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
2. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

Greetings Jerry, I disconnected the two green/Yellow wire from the rectifier and the motor still fires....

 

[Justtlsnew]

Coil packs are the coils with plug wires on them. The CD modules (CDM) are the power packs that connects to the coil packs. Each CDM has two circuits that provide power to the coils for 1 and 2 and another CDM for 3 and 4 coils. The CDM's are triggered or get enegized by a low voltage input from the trigger coil.

Since you are experiencing loss of spark on both 1 and 2 cylinders, it would indicate the CDM feeding these cylinders must not be working. You can verify this by switching it with the CDM feeding 3 and 4, assuming they are identical.

The CDM's get its power from the stator usually blue and yellow wires depending on year and model.

what do I need to switch (what wires) to swap CD Modules?

 

[Justtlsnew]

Greetings and thanks for reading my post. Ive owned a few boats but have not done a lot of service to outboards. Got this boat about a week ago, got it running but was backfiring. Tried new plugs and seafoam, eventually found out the top 2 of the 4 cylinders were not getting any spark. When I pull the wire of 1 or 2 no change in the way in runs. I found lots of info here and have tried swapping out coil packs with the bottom cylinder but the problem stayed the same so it would seem the coil pack is fine. I was about to try swapping the blu/yellow wire from the stator to the CDI but it appears that the onlu one of the CDI modules has the blu/yellow. The older looking CDI appears to have a off white looking wire in the same position, Im confused. Should I swap the blu/yello stripe wire on the block with the off wht wire on the block? What is the best way to isolate the CDI module. Keep in mind im ok with a wrench but electronics not my core strength and I don't have anything for testing other than a light that shows power no power. Thank you for any info. My best to you and yours....

I was wrong about no spark, im getting a weak spark, enough to give me a shock when I pull the plug wires from 1 or 2 but not enough to change the way the motor sounds. The motor actually sound pretty good at ideal but it starts to backfire when I try to give it throttle and like I said no significant change when pulling 1 or 2, major change when pulling 2 or 4...

 

[jerryjerry05]

Did you test the stator?

Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
Or read the same when testing, some stators read lower but should be the same when testing the different pairs.

You can pull all the plug wires and swap the parts but the tests need to be done?

Backfiring? That could be a bad gasket allowing air to be sucked into the intake side.
Spray starting fluid around the intake and see if it makes a difference.

One tiny backfire can blow a port cover gasket and let the motor suck air.​

 

[Justtlsnew]

Did you test the stator?

Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
Or read the same when testing, some stators read lower but should be the same when testing the different pairs.

You can pull all the plug wires and swap the parts but the tests need to be done?

Backfiring? That could be a bad gasket allowing air to be sucked into the intake side.
Spray starting fluid around the intake and see if it makes a difference.

One tiny backfire can blow a port cover gasket and let the motor suck air.​

I replaced the stator and the compression is surprising like factory new specs across all 4 cylinders. The engine starts and runs amazingly smooth at idle and seems to be getting some spark, as I said I get a shock. im thinking the CD Module, what wires should I move to swap the cd to the other cylinders. One of the CD modules is new the other is very old looking. the old is the on the problem cylinders. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Justtlsnew]

Did you test the stator?

Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
Or read the same when testing, some stators read lower but should be the same when testing the different pairs.

You can pull all the plug wires and swap the parts but the tests need to be done?

Backfiring? That could be a bad gasket allowing air to be sucked into the intake side.
Spray starting fluid around the intake and see if it makes a difference.

One tiny backfire can blow a port cover gasket and let the motor suck air.​

BTW it only starts to backfire when I start bring the RPMS up, initially it accelerates smoothly and then it gets ruff.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Backfiring during acceleration.
Again the motors sucking air.??
You do the starting fluid test I described earlier?

 

[Justtlsnew]

Ok this make little to no sense but after even with little spark at 1 & 2 while at idle (pill the plugs and nothing changes. I put the boat in the water and it runs like a champ! 35MPH and handles great. Everything works except the tac jumps around at WOT but seems accurate at about 30 MPH the tac is at little over 4K. Thanks for your help.