Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

turtle1173

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
437
Hi all,<br /><br /> This is my 1972 85HP Chrysler, model #: 857HD I've been battling with this since I finally got the engine running. It will not go into gear without dying. I've replaced several of the fuel hoses inside the engine. I've been through the carbs 3 times. I took them apart again today before going to the ramp to check the float levels. A couple of them were off slightly but they are all within specs now. I set the timing according to the manual this morning.<br /><br /> Last week I was having a problem with the choke not closing all the way. The engine wouldn't start without squirting premix into the carb throats. That has been remedied now.<br /><br /> I let my engine sit at a fast idle (as fast as the controls would allow) for quite a while, then I would back it down into neutral idle. I then pushed in the button on the controller and no matter how I would try to shift it, it will not stay running while going into gear (forward or reverse). It seems to be hitting on all 3 cylinders. I pulled the plugs and all were wet.<br /><br /> I noticed that I always had to choke the motor to restart it. I was wondering if I'm sucking air somewhere but it doesn't seem like I would be. I can't squeeze the fuel bulb any. It is solid.<br /><br /> I guess I should also mention that when cleaning the carbs, I haven't soaked them in that dip stuff. I just took it all apart and used carb cleaner in a can. Then blew it out with compressed air. Does it sound like a carb problem?<br /><br /> Also, I tried to advance the throttle manually on the carbs while it was idling. When I would push it slighly more than what the controls would allow, the engine would start to die. Is this a safety mechanism or should it advance when I do this??<br /><br />Sorry for all the questions and such a long post but I'm ready to fish!!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Shane
 

Yepblaze

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Jun 1, 2001
Messages
1,686
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

There's not much left it could be, right?<br /><br />When checking the carb use the little hose thing on the spray carb cleaner and squirt it in and through the passages of the idle circuit. You should be able to see if both carbs are about equal in the way the stuff squirts through and comes out the other holes.<br /><br />How did the carbs dial in when setting idle mixtures? Were the mixture screws reactive to adjustment? Or not very?<br /><br />Is it still possible that it just has poor compression?<br /><br />Is it possible that you have bad main, or crankshaft seals. Is their any side to side motion in the flywheel when shoved away and pulled toward you?<br /><br />Is it possible that you don't have enough initial advance for some reason.<br /><br />These are just wild guesses.
 

turtle1173

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
437
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Hi,<br /><br /> The compression is on the low side. (105, 90, 110) but will it not shift with marginal compression??<br /><br /> The idle mixture screws do get a reaction when turned.<br /><br /> It just seems like if the carbs were a little on the dirty side, it would still shift but maybe just rougher.<br /><br /> How would I check the initial advance? All my manual says is to line up the "I" mark on the timing sticker with the flywheel mark and the curve on the distributor pulley. The actual timing adjustment is make at WOT. I did this "statically" (not running) according to the manual. I messed with the idle speed some but it didn't have any effect on shifting it into gear.<br /><br />Any other thoughts??<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Shane
 

bboukari

Recruit
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
5
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

This sounds very much like a problem I am having on my Mercury 80 HP. After working for several hours. I troubleshooted with my uncle. We found that we were NOT firing on all four.<br /><br />I was having exactly the same problem. Engine seemed fine out of the water and in nuetral. But the second it goes in gear, the engine doesn't have enough power to turn the prop in the water.<br /><br />Check those plugs. Sounds like the problem to me.<br /><br />Bry
 

Terry H

Lieutenant Commander
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Sep 25, 2001
Messages
1,862
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Turtle...it still sounds like you are not linked and sinked properly...idle is set too low, should be 6-800rpm in gear...should start advancing distributor and picking up idle as you slip into gear...when you get it set up properly it should run fine...<br />I ran one of those motors for 2 years on only 2 cylinders, and except for a lack in performance, it ran fine(let the kids use it...they didn't know the dif). <br />If you have the Seloc manual go to chapter 6 and read the intro...then find the section that covers the synchronation on your 3 cyl model and do what it says...takes you thru all the adjustments including the carburators, cables, distributor and gets them all working together...if you follow step by step, you should have a fine running motor in an hour...just my Thoughts
 

turtle1173

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
437
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Thought101: I do have the Seloc manual. I think I about have it memorized :eek: The problem with much of this is that it requires putting it in gear to adjust things. I can't even get that far! My understanding is that to increase the idle speed, I have to adjust the idle speed screw. Is that correct? I adjusted it some today, perhaps I need to play around more with it. I don't have a Tachometer, so that makes it a little more difficult.<br /><br /> Could my cable adjustment have anything to do with this? I can't find anything in the link & synch section about cables. How can I check their adjustment, other than "Neutral at the controls and neutral at the engine?" <br /><br /> I've got a 55HP that I've been working on also. It only hits on 1 cylinder but it shifts great :D Aaaawww!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Shane
 

Hitman

Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Messages
7
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Here's a thought, I had a guy bring a Force 120 hp in for a tune up and he complained of the same thing, low idle, and dies when shifting into forward or reverse. I checked compession and all where good, and upon a lake test I notice a strange noise from the front of the motor while running. I used a pair of insulated pliers to pull off the wires one at a time and found there was spark , but not running on cylinder #1, I removed the carb and found a broken reed. It was chipped off and cracked enough to not allow fuel to be drawn into the crankcase. That is something you may want to check because no motor likes to run missing a cylinder.<br /><br />Good Luck<br />Tom
 

andy h

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
44
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Hey I was (am) having the same problem with a 850 mercury. I finally go so frustrated I decided to have someone else look at it (for $65 an hour) :( anyways it should be done by wednesday. I will let you know what the exact problem was and what was done. ;)
 

sony2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Messages
607
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Turtle, the Chrysler is a Force. Why don't you adjust the idle speed bolt? The must be a shaft connecting all three carbs to open them on acceleration. Probably left side. At the bottom of the shaft where it attaches to the cable there is an arm that rotates to the block. On the end of the arm is a bolt that locks and hits the block. Thats it. Screw it in to keep the arm further from the block. Get 900 rpm in neutral= 600 in gear. :cool:
 

Terry H

Lieutenant Commander
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Sep 25, 2001
Messages
1,862
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Turtle, it's been a long time since I worked on this so I go from bad memory...you really need a tach and test tank, it'll be tougher without...I have to assume you set up the distributor by the book, as well as the choke and throttle butterflies in carbs...adjust the towershaft adjust screw till you have full movement of dist...set all lo speed jets one turn from gentle bottom, that should get you runnung in neutral...to increase idle adjust link between towershaft and throttle, that will adjust the carbs without affecting the timing...on the end of the cable is a nut, loose and adjust the cable to allow full range of lmovement between idle and and wot...you'll have to play around link adjust to get it idling at right speed...go back and fine tune the carbs by the book...reset link to proper idle...when all is happy adjust shift timing...loose nut on end of cable and adjust so it goes into gear at 1/4-1/3 throttle, you need to be in test tank or water to fine tune everything...hope you can understand this. Adjust cable and towershaft to get full movement of dist...adjust link arm to raise idle...adjust shift cable to engage at proper time...that's the best I can do without doing it myself right now...just a Thought
 

turtle1173

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
437
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Here's the latest:<br /><br /> It rained all night and all morning but it finally broke around 2:30pm this afternoon. I took it back down to the ramp and decided to make it an afternoon of tinkering.<br /><br /> I decided to check the points before I got started with any other adjustments. The points were gapped much less than it needed to be, so I set that appropriately.<br /><br /> I turned out the idle speed screw more and also adjusted the throttle cam as the manual suggests.<br /><br /> Anyway, to make a long story somewhat shorter, it idled much much better but still would not go into gear without dying. So I proceeded to mess with the cable linkages. I could get it to sputter momentarily in gear but that was the best I could get.<br /><br /> So, I decided to go back to square 1 (how many squares are there anyway) and take the carbs back apart. I bought the chemical dip bath stuff (that's the technical term) and am still in the process of cleaning them as I type this.<br /><br /> However, I noticed on the #2 carb that the rubber end of the needle seat was completely covered. The needle valve would sit in it but there was no hole on the end in the middle of the rubber. The other two carbs needle seats are all metal and have a distinct hole in the center. <br /><br /> Have I finally found the problem?? No fuel getting back into the bowl. Is that how the fuel gets into the bowl when the float goes down???<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Shane
 

Yepblaze

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Messages
1,686
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Weather it's rubber tipped or metal doesn't matter. But keep them assigned to the seats they were with allready.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

"However, I noticed on the #2 carb that the rubber end of the needle seat was completely covered. The needle valve would sit in it but there was no hole on the end in the middle of the rubber. The other two carbs needle seats are all metal and have a distinct hole in the center. "<br /><br />Compeltely covered? The pointed tip of the needle goes into a precissiion tube, sometimes,with an o-ring "seat",sometimes without,just bare polished metal. But a hole by any other terms,.<br />As the bowl fills, the float pushes this needle upward into the tube, and seats, shutting-off the intake of more fuel. You would know that they are not sticking-open or out of adjustemnt on the directioon of 'open', if you can squeeze the primer firm, and not have any fuel spill out of a small hole in the carb (the overflow).<br /><br />"Have I finally found the problem?? No fuel getting back into the bowl. Is that how the fuel gets into the bowl when the float goes down???"<br />You can test this by blowing air into while phusically turning the carb over in you hand,allowing the needle to seat from gravity, and allowing air in if the carb is upright.<br />If the tab on the float is not allowing the needle to open, or is not pushing the needle up to seat when full, it can be adjusted.
 

turtle1173

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
437
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

Completely covered, meaning that the rubber piece on the needle seat appeared to have no hole. It was like a rubber cap on the end.<br /><br /> There is a metal o-ring and then the needle seat with a rubber end. The needle valve point fits up against the rubber end.<br /><br /> On the other 2 carbs, there is no rubber end. The needle seat is all metal with a hole in the end where the needle valve fits into.<br /><br />Shane
 

crazidan

Recruit
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
3
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

check the ring for ware that will keep it form ideling that what it sound like or the block might be worn out you should have 120 or better psi
 

jim dozier

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Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: Still Won't go into gear without Dying!! Help

What parts come with a rebuild kit for that motor? I don't have any experience with that motor but I think you are on to something. Shouldn't all three be the same. The floats operate like and old style toilet float. Make sure its right before you reassemble it. Remember all the non-metallic parts have to be removed before you use the carb dip. Is it possible that the piece of rubber is left over from some previous rebuild?
 
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