Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

[crunch]

Our folks are very active in Al Anbar and in Baghdad, which is where the enemy is concentrated. Our commanders report that the enemy has also suffered. Offensive operations by Iraqi and coalition forces against terrorists, and insurgents, and death squad leaders have yielded positive results. In the months of October, November, and the first week of December, we have killed or captured nearly 5,900 of the enemy.

Remember, the war on terror is not in Iraq, it's in Afganastan... who here said that?

Interesting new site: http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/179/Bush_Nearly_5900_Enemy_Killed_Nabbed

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

Gosh,

Just like the body counts from Viet Nam.....maybe Bush is channeling the spirit of General Westmoreland?

So we've taken 5,900 out of circulation and this is helping the war on terror. What would those 5,900 have been doing if we were not there to begin with? Would they have been taking up arms and traveling to Afganistan to attack us? If not it's doubtful they would have traveled across the seas to attack us stateside.

These are terrorist of opportunity only. We have put ourselves in the middle of a civil war. We have aligned ourselves with the minority population present in this culture where the former military was predominantly made up of the majority sect.

Any concrete suggestions about where we go from here?

Try and get neighboring countries involved?
Seal the borders and sweep from the outside in?
Setup a mega-compound for our troops and tell the citizens that when the dust settles we will see where things stand?

 

[crunch]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

Just like the body counts from Viet Nam.....maybe Bush is channeling the spirit of General Westmoreland?

So we've taken 5,900 out of circulation and this is helping the war on terror. What would those 5,900 have been doing if we were not there to begin with? Would they have been taking up arms and traveling to Afganistan to attack us? If not it's doubtful they would have traveled across the seas to attack us stateside.

Well, that equates to over 2,000 terrorists per month, killed or captured... did you read the link? Do you have any doubt that the goal of the terrorists is to create a safe haven, with oil money, and the backing of Iran to further their goals of attacking the US?

These are terrorist of opportunity only. We have put ourselves in the middle of a civil war. We have aligned ourselves with the minority population present in this culture where the former military was predominantly made up of the majority sect.

1st, it's not by definition a civil war yet. 2nd, The Sunni’s are only a minority in Iraq, they make up around 85% of the worlds Arabs, and are the predominate sect in our closest allie in the region.... Saudi Arabia.

Any concrete suggestions about where we go from here?

Try and get neighboring countries involved?

The Saudi's, yes... Iran and Syria, no.

Seal the borders and sweep from the outside in
Setup a mega-compound for our troops and tell the citizens that when the dust settles we will see where things stand?

I'm of 2 minds on what to do.

One is the Pentagons plan to increase troop strength temporarily and go after Sadr's stronghold in Al Anbar province, wipe the MF'er out.

The other is to take advantage of the Saudi position and withdraw... then fight a proxy war through the Saudis against Iran.

What's your plan?... do you have one? Or are you just here as a critic?

 

[steve201]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

Siria, Iran, pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other middle east nations are all involve in this war...not just iraq....I work with a bunch of iraqi engineers and other folks from iran as well....these countries are sponsoring the terrorists...read in a news article the other day that the saudi sunnis are sending money by the buckets full to the insurgents...so..don't think for a second it's just a civil war....it's a regional war and we're caught in the middle of it all.....stupidly admittedly.....but the people are not getting the facts.....

 

[roscoe]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

We have aligned ourselves with the minority population present in this culture where the former military was predominantly made up of the majority sect.

Wrong, the Sunni's were in power, they were the minority, ruled by death squad.

 

[crunch]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

..don't think for a second it's just a civil war....it's a regional war and we're caught in the middle of it all.....stupidly admittedly.....

We fought the "Cold War" for 50+ years... by you logic, stupidly.

By you own post, it's a regional war, and that region has profound National Security implications to this, yours, and my country.... yet stupidly we are there.

The people that want to know what is going on have the resources, via the web, to know more than ever before what is going on in our world, they just have to make the effort... most just do the TV thing for 30 minutes and call themselves "informed"... which are you?

BTW, welcome to the Board, don't let me put you off from posting your opinion... all views are welcome, some may draw more fire than others.

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

1) Yes, I read the link.
2) Goals of the terrorists. I think they right now want the spoils of war in Iraq. I certain that Iran will no doubt do all they can to sponsor terrorism regardless of the outcome in Iraq.

3) It's a civil war. You have two opposing, maybe three, groups killing each other in order to consolidate their power. You just don't have an active native military doing anything about it.

4) It only matters what the rest of the Arab world is religion wise if they are willing to cross the borders and take up arms for their theological brethren.
I think we need to involve more than just Saudi Arabia in any talks concerning that area. As much as we opposed the Soviets we had a hot line telephone link to them.

A temporary increase with the aim to clean out Al Anbar might work, but you must remember we are now fighting a guerrilla war.
I don't see how withdrawing and using the Saudis as a proxy would work. I don't think they have the military capability to do anything large scale.
5) As for my plan I offered up two options to get the conversation rolling.

6) If you mean critic as one who uses critical thinking to analyze a situation than yes, I suppose I am. But your tone seems accusatory. This brings to my mind a question:
Is it your wish that only those that are in 100% agreement with you reply to your posts?

My post about General Westmoreland has to do with how the US military inflated enemy body counts in order to sway public opinion.

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

We have aligned ourselves with the minority population present in this culture where the former military was predominantly made up of the majority sect.

Wrong, the Sunni's were in power, they were the minority, ruled by death squad.

I stand corrected....

...and I see a valid argument that this is a regional war, not just a civil war...

 

[crunch]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

Is it your wish that only those that are in 100% agreement with you reply to your posts?

You should know me better by now than to think that.

A temporary increase with the aim to clean out Al Anbar might work, but you must remember we are now fighting a guerrilla war.

This is a concentrated "strong hold". Sadr has most of his eggs in one basket right now.... it's his power base and about 60,000 strong. We pulled out of that area just for that reason, he had the troop strength we, at that time, couldn't break.... if we keep this silly notion of no "collateral damage" we never will, and that is the card Sadr is counting on.

If however, we just saturate his "strong hold" with Air, Artillery, and Ground (M1A1's) with a few foot troops to scoop up the mess... it's no longer a "guerrilla war"... it's a High Tech War that we are the masters of.

4) It only matters what the rest of the Arab world is religion wise if they are willing to cross the borders and take up arms for their theological brethren.

You need to keep up on world events. The Saudi's are, at this moment, prepared to fund Sunnis, employ an Army to protect Sunnis in Iraq, and under cut world oil prices by 1/2 just to put a twist in Irans plans for Iraq should the US withdraw... links on other threads.

 

[PW2]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

And just exactly who is this "enemy"?

Are they foreigners? Sunnis? Shiites? Who, exactly? And how many do we have to kill before we win?

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

Custom, you can't forget that the US doesn't report enemy body counts. That's why all you hear from the media is US body counts.

Truth be known, we are kicking serious azz in Iraq and Afganistan. After talking to a sergeant in the military he told me that he isn't sure of exact numbers, but that we killed almost 100,000 Iraqi military personnel in 2003 alone, and I believe 50,000 in Afganistan. The US would be seen as a human slaughter machine if we would release numbers like that to the public.

Those numbers aren't exact, but they give you an idea of how bad we are killing these raghead bastards.

Listen to the reports of "coalition forces" killing 200-300 in one battle. That would account for months and months of IED deaths of our soldiers. They won't usually say that the US did that, just coalition forces.

 

[KRS]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

This is a religious war.

The sunnis, shiites, everyone practices their religion differently and interpretes their scripture differently.... but they all seem to think that theirs is the only way and it's time to destroy those who don't think the same. And before you jump and say that only fanatics feel that way let me say that it doesn't take a bomb to destroy your enemy. If the sunni's hate everyone else (and they do) all they need is to get in power and prosper themselves and destroy everyone else in the country (which is what they were doing when we showed up).

Pacificts? ...... none of them are.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

"not a civil war"

can't be

cause it's not a war

the war is over, we won. Remember?

we're winning. trust me. ok, so we're not taking any ground. so we're taking a lot of casualties. so we're in the same position we were in a year ago. so we're pursuing the same strategy day in and day out and not making any progress. we're staying the course. and that means we're winning. trust me. anybody who says different is a liberal commie democrat traitor. it'll be over when I say it's over. trust me.

 

[PW2]

Re: Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed

"not a civil war"

can't be

cause it's not a war

the war is over, we won. Remember?

we're winning. trust me. ok, so we're not taking any ground. so we're taking a lot of casualties. so we're in the same position we were in a year ago. so we're pursuing the same strategy day in and day out and not making any progress. we're staying the course. and that means we're winning. trust me. anybody who says different is a liberal commie democrat traitor. it'll be over when I say it's over. trust me.

Sounds like we are rejecting the ISG recommendations, and while we can't seem to figure out what to do next, or certainly when to announce it, it seems likely we are going to increase the number of troops over there by 20 k or so and somehow hope that makes all the difference.

I'm curious. Does anyone, anywhere really think it will make a difference, or that this one last push will make Cheney's statement prophetic that the insurgency is in it's last throes?

I hope they are right. I fear they are hopelessly delusional