What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

Pony

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Story Here

This has got to be one of the most disturbing stories I have heard in awhile. 12 years seems like a slap in the wrist for the mental damage their child has probably recieved.
 

KaGee

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Pony at least in Wisconsin there is still a chance they will see some jail time. If they lived in Vermont, there would be no consequences, in fact they would be given celebrity status and free treatment for their disorder to be "restored".
 

RubberFrog

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Get a rope!
 

Boomyal

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardy enough.

Hmmmm! Is that court system controlled by evil conservatives?
 

Pony

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

I was just pondering this a bit more........how did they keep this a secret for so long. You would think the other kids at some point would wonder what was going on and tell some friends at school or grandparents or something.
 

bassboy1

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

Some of the stories that come with some of these kids are insane. My family took in foster kids for about 4 years, and we ended up adopting two of them. The stuff that these kids had been through is unreal. And, generally, the parents got the kids back after taking a simple course. We had one girl who came back to us twice and back to one other person as well. After 3 times, DFCS still let her go back to the parents. If the parent screwed up that many times, they probably wont fix themselves. And, the kids grow up to be just like the parents.
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

Why did they get any time at all? During my teen years I spent at least 2 years locked in my room. The only relief I got was when I was let out briefly to go get into more trouble, then I was promptly returned to my room. My parents never did time so why should they?
 

WillyBWright

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

The teen was treated with cruelty. I hope she can heal and live a normal life. But perhaps she was severely mentally ill to begin with and the parents didn't know how to deal with it and were turned away when they sought help. Too early, too little information. Except that one would hope that better alternatives were available, and it would seem the parents made a really heinous decision. On face value, I agree that 12 years is not enough. But I don't know enough about the situation to pass final judgement just yet. Mental illness is tragic, and the way we as a society treat those that suffer from it is often shameful. I'm not blaming the child, but I have too little information to blame the partents until more is known. We as a bureaucratic and sometimes heartless society may be at fault here. Parents of the mentally ill are often left to fend for themselves, or that institutionalization was a far less attractive option (hard to believe).

There are some pretty big holes in the story as told so far, mostly regarding the two years claim. Read below...
 

WillyBWright

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

BY JENNIFER K. WOLDT
of The Northwestern (Oshkosh)


A day after discovering their first-born grandchild had been locked in a small bedroom for 22 hours a day for nearly two years, Joe Zimmer and his wife vowed to do whatever they could to make sure their 13-year-old granddaughter does not suffer again.


“We’ve gone through all the emotions,” Joe Zimmer, the girl’s maternal grandfather, said Wednesday. “But we’re going to try to focus all of our attention on (her) and on making sure that she’s fine and safe and that our relationship gets back to where it’s supposed to be and that nobody hurts her ever again.”

The girl’s father, Clint M. Engstrom, 32, and her stepmother, Lynn M. Engstrom, 35, were charged Tuesday in Winnebago County Circuit Court with causing mental harm to a child, a felony that carries a maximum penalty of 12 years in prison and a $25,000 fine.

According to the criminal complaint, the 13-year-old girl was locked in a small bedroom for 22 hours a day for nearly two years. The bedroom was secured with a dead bolt accessible only from the outside and an alarm system that went off if the door was opened. There was a camera in the room that recorded what the girl was doing at all hours. The only furnishings in the room were a urine-soaked mattress, a blanket, a pillow and an empty dresser. The girl told detectives she was only allowed to leave the room to eat meals, go on timed bathroom breaks and do chores.

The details surrounding the girl’s whereabouts since February 2005 are unclear. Although Lynn Engstrom told detectives that the girl only left her room to eat meals and do chores, Oshkosh school officials said she continued to be enrolled in classes during much of that period.

School officials with the Oshkosh Area School District and Grace Lutheran School on Wednesday told The Northwestern the girl was enrolled in school during that time, with the exception of a four-month period last year. However, they were unable to discuss how frequently she attended classes, citing student confidentiality rules.

John Sprangers, human resource director with the Oshkosh schools, said the girl attended Smith Elementary School through third grade. On Aug. 30, 2002, her parents indicated she was transferring to Grace Lutheran, Sprangers said.

Richard Slattery, the principal at Grace Lutheran, confirmed the girl was enrolled at the school until June 2006 and was attending classes. However, he said the girl did not return for the 2006-07 school year. Sprangers said the girl’s parents re-enrolled her in Oshkosh public schools Dec. 11 and she remained enrolled as of Wednesday.

Sprangers and Slattery were unable to release information surrounding the girl’s attendance because of state and federal laws governing student records.

The girl’s ordeal only came to light after her parents took her to St. Elizabeth’s Hospital in Appleton Jan. 12 after the girl reported hearing voices in her head. Hospital staff contacted the Oshkosh Police Department after examining the girl.

Zimmer said the girl’s mother, his daughter, surrendered her parental rights a few years ago, but he and his wife Karen had enjoyed a good relationship with their granddaughter, seeing her often. He said gradually the Engstroms began limiting the time they were able to spend with her, saying the girl was misbehaving or Zimmer was spoiling her.

Zimmer said all contact with the Engstroms ceased about two years ago, around the time police allege the girl’s days in captivity began.

“We didn’t know what was happening with her and they weren’t telling us anything at all,” Zimmer said. “Obviously we found out (Tuesday) what was happening with her.”

The Engstroms are each being held in the Winnebago County Jail in lieu of a $25,000 cash bond. They are due in court Jan. 25 for a preliminary hearing.
 

12Footer

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

There are some sick people in this world, and they range the entire spectrum of mental illness.
For example --- How would you like to be this 12 year old's parents or manager? (I hope that link werkz)

And ya wonder how people end-up doing some of the bizzare stuff they do?
Willy, Pony, you and I are on the same page regarding these freaks that walk among us.
This is not a politcal issue. It is a moral and societal one.
(Is "societal" a real word? Well, it fits anyhoo.

.
 

Pony

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

I agree 100%, this is a moral and societal issue.

Now who knows what realy happened. We may never know, but IF they did what has been suggested.....they out to be severely punished.

Here is an update Update here
 

WillyBWright

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

What I'm seeing is a whole lotta self-appointed "experts" piping-off their opinions based on little to no information (probably MIS-information), and the people that do have knowledge are the ones that are respecting the child's right to privacy. The two years claim flies in the face of logic given that she has been enrolled in schools during that time. The fact that the child came out of her room during the grandmother's December visit disproves the locked door theory. Presence of a lock doesn't mean it was. I have an old Victorian. Every dang door in the house has a skeleton-key lock.

What we have here is meddling maternal grandparents spouting-off obvious BS and hatred of the ex-son-inlaw father and frankly I don't believe a word they've said. In fact much of what they've said has already been disproved. The wrong people may be in jail here. But more info is still needed. The fact that the child is under psychiatric care speaks volumes. She IS getting treatment. That disproves abuse to me, at least to the extreme extent that the media is spouting.

Alas, mental illness is often heredetary. Her mother relinquished custody, maybe for such reasons. I'm sure there will be plenty more information and misinformation forthcoming. Unfortunately for the child, this circus may be more damaging than anything she's been subject to so far.
 

tommays

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

My parents could not control my Schizophrenic older brother the state had no problem locking him in a room and druging him into a drooling stupor as it was cheeper than finding out the problem

Now that they do a better job with the meds he lives on his own with a visit once a week to be sure he is OK

And the NEW meds do not work he is helped with the 35 year old school drugs

Tommays
 

12Footer

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Re: What a sick disgrace.......12 years is hardly enough.

Sorry to hear about your brother, man.
By "school drugs", do you mean like ludes, man? Like acid? White cross? Man, that's what they were poppin back in school man. and like they did help make them laugh in algebra class.
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