Engine won't turn over

[OneFineFiftyNine]

Hello everyone,

Sorry my first post has to be a tech question. I just got my first boat, a 1970 Larson 185, with a Mercruiser 4 cylinder I/O. It supposedly ran, according to the guy I bought it from, a month before I got it. I know I should have asked him to run it for me, but since I got the entire rig for $100, I didn't want to be too picky, and the engine does look pretty clean considering it's age. The oil is also fairly clean.

I'm fairly mechanically inclined, I have a lot of experience with car engines; rebuilt quite a few. This, however, is my first boat.

When I go to start it, the engine turns about an inch and there is a "thunk" and it doesn't go any further. When you release the key, the engine turns back to where it was previously. When you do this, the outdrive turns to one side as if you were turning the steering wheel.

I replaced the starter this morning due to an unrelated issue, so it is brand new.

I have tried moving it in and out of gear, always getting the same result. Anyway, I was looking for advice on what to do next. It is a physical impossibility to put a socket on the crank pully with a large breaker bar for two reasons: 1) there is no nut on the crank pulley, and 2) the large motor mount in located directly in front of it also renders this impossible. I know I could remove the starter and turn the flywheel with a pry bar, but if the starter can't move it further than inch, I doubt I will be able to either.

I appreciate any info or pointers. And if you're in the Brevard county area, there might be a case of beer with your name on it if you can get the motor started. 8)

Brian
V8PunkRocket@aol.com

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Pull the spark plugs and see if it turns over and water comes out of the cylinders.
If the problem is the same, pull the drive. The drive could cause the engine to appear to be locked.

 

[Coors]

Re: Engine won't turn over

what Don said, I spent money on a simple( they stopped too fast, the flappers were froze open, and water in cylinder.

 

[mike176]

Re: Engine won't turn over

maybe the drive shaft is binding??? i would try pulling the drive, inspect the gimble bearing and the U-joints. Then i would try turning it over with out the drive to isolate the problem. $100 boat sounds good for the first one but to be honest i would run from any boat somebody wanted to giveaway for $100. i'm no pro but i've been messin with an older boat, just replaced my outdrive and i've gotta say there are alot of things backthere that can make for a very bad day.

 

[mike176]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Oh if there beer involved i'm in Alachua county!! your only an hour away.

 

[OneFineFiftyNine]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Thanks for the replies everyone. I already tried pulling the plugs, engine reacts the same. It seems like it is stuck in gear. I can push the throttle to full in forward without a problem, but not reverse. I can't move it far in reverse very far at all.

So, I'll get to work pulling the drive this weekend.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Engine won't turn over

To pull the drive, you should only have to put the drive in forward, remove the bolt for the trim cylinders, and undo the 6 nuts that hold it on.

 

[imported_RICH1]

Re: Engine won't turn over

OK I HAVE ALOT OF MERCS BEFORE YOU PULL THE OUT DRIVE GO TO THE BACK AND TURN THE PROP SHAFT BOTH DIRECTIONS MAKE SURE THE OUTDRIVE IS IN NEUTRAL IF IT LOCKS IN ONE DIRECTION THEN YOU NEED TO MOVE THE SHIFTER FURTHER BACK UNTIL THE PROP SHAFT TURN FREE IF IT WONT THEN OPEN THE DRAIN PLUG IN THE BOTTOM OF THE OUTDRIVE AND CATCH THE OIL SEE IF IT HAS WATER IN IT IT WILL BE GREYISH COLOR IF IT HAS WATER IN IT IF IT DOES YOU NEED TO DRAIN IT 100% THEN PUT THE OUTDRIVE IN FORWARD JUST AS IT GOES INTO FORWARD AND THEN REMOVE THE 2 BOLTS THAT HOLD THE PISTONS FOR THE LIFT AND THE 6 BOLTS THAT HOLD THE OUTDRIVE IN PLACE DO NOT TAKE ANYMORE BOLTS OFF YOU MUST REMOVE IT IN FORWARD AND PUT IT BACK ON IN FORWARED LOOK AT THE DRIVE SHAFT AND SEE IF IT LOOKS RUSTY IF SO YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE UJOINTS NOT CHEAP I LIVE IN ILLINOIS I HAVE 140 MERCRUISER OUTDRIVES IF YOU NEED THEM $1,000.00 YOU PICK UP I HAVE 1 THAT WAS TOTALT REBUILT AND LEFT IN BOTTOM OF BOAT TO BE PUT IN BUT OWNER CRASHED BOAT WITH TRUCK BEFORE HE COULD PUT IT ON

 

[180shabah]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Hey rich, I think you will find taht the sales pitch may not go over too well, especially when a brand new drive can be had for about $1200 delivered.

 

[mike176]

Re: Engine won't turn over

or brandnew lower unit for $700

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Engine won't turn over

This from the guy who on another post couldn't figure out how to get timing gears????? MR ALL CAPS RICH????

 

[OneFineFiftyNine]

The prop turns freely in either direction.

In addition to this annoying issue, I cannot get the outdrive to lower. I hear the pump running to lower it, but it doesn't even budge.

I'm debating whether or not I should just sell this thing, even though it supposedly was on the water a month ago.

I really appreciate all the advice though.

 

[OneFineFiftyNine]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Okay, update.

I pulled the outdrive, and it was a mess. Full of mucky, ugly water and god knows what else. Almost seems whoever drove the boat the last time ran it into some mud and didn't bother flushing it out when they were done boating for the day.

The engine turns over very well without the frozen outdrive attached to it. Since I had nothing to lose and I couldn't resist, I took the outdrive apart. I seperated the lower and upper havles. The lower half with the prop attached actually spins well and is in surprisingly good shape compared to the upper half.

The upper half is where the problems are. The U-joints, although they still move freely, are rusted badly. The input shaft wouldn't move and consequently neither would the shaft it was intended to turn. The bearing at the top of the drive wouldn't spin either. (Is that the gimble bearing?)

Well, using a lot of PB Blaster, a crowbar and a hammer, I did manage to get the unit spinning. So it isn't frozen per se anymore, but you can hear a gritty sound as it turns. I'm attaching some pics. My next question is, how do I remove these two shafts? Since I am probably just replacing this entire thing anyway, I am using this one as a learning mule.

Again, this site is great, I sincerely appreciate all the advice I have gotten thus far.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Yep, she's toast and prolly not worth even messin with. Your best bet is to replace it. The Lower is going to be toast also. The two halves share the same oil, or water in this case. Believe me, the lower will look just like the upper if you disassemble it for inspection.​

Look Here SEI Sterndrives​

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine won't turn over

My guess is the bellows failed, allowed water into the drive which pushed the oil out. Then the rust began in the upper which turns all the time.
Basically if you weigh it right now you will know how much "Junk" weighs.
You need a new drive, but you are also going to need ujoint bellows, gimbal bearing, and who knows what else around the transom shield. Probably the shift cable, bellows, waterhose etc.
Fix it all now, or you could end up replacing a new drive in short order.

 

[OneFineFiftyNine]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Sounds like I should cut my losses and sell this one. Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[Aquaman]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Sounds like I should cut my losses and sell this one.

If you only had $100.00 in it you could still come out ahead. I bought my first boat last July knowing only two things...the asking price and the fact that I wasn't coming off one thin dime without a sea trial.

 

[mike176]

Re: Engine won't turn over

I dunno if the boat is not suffering from rott and you have a good running motor you could spend the $1200 on a new aftermarket drive and a little more on the transome kit. you could have a nice boat after your done.

 

[OneFineFiftyNine]

Re: Engine won't turn over

Well, maybe you're right. The hull and deck are solid throughout. I can't afford to spend $1200 on an outdrive though, but I have found several good used ones decently priced. I know it isn't the best way to go, but honestly it is my only choice.

Will keep everyone posted. If anyone's in the Brevard county area, come by for a beer sometime!