Engine mess

[Bruce53]

I got my 1986 SVC 140 SS started but it only runs on three cylinders. Two problems that I don't believe are related: 120 lbs in three cylinders but 95 lbs in #3 (obviously the cause of running on only three) and it will only run when timing is set at 23 degrees before TDC. Normally set for 6 degrees. So something has really slipped. Since it can't be between the TDC mark and the pistons, it would have to be in the cam shaft, though that is the only part I didn't bother in the rebuild. It can't be in the distributor because that has only two positions 180 apart. Interesting thing: I had it running well earlier at 6 degrees and compression good everywhere. Now when I roll the engine with all spark plugs removed, the #2 plug hole spews out a big mix of gas and air. #2 and #3 are together in line but separated by one revolution (firing is 1 3 4 2). I suspect that #3 intake is stuck open on its compression stroke and sending the stuff into #2 which has its intake open at the same time. Sound right?

What a mess. I sure screwed something up big time as Chaney would say. I have rebuilt three car engines and one boat engine and never had a problem afterwards. Decision now: shop repair, my repair, or engine replace. Not sure at this point which would be faster, cheaper, better. Any suggestions? Thanks guys....

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine mess

Recheck your valve adjustment.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Engine mess

Ayuh,......
Starting with the Valves will Tell you if the Cam is Off......

If it IS,.....
It Ain't that Bad to change the Timing Gears,... Right in the Boat, If you have the Space in front of the motor.......

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

Ayuh,......
Starting with the Valves will Tell you if the Cam is Off......

If it IS,.....
It Ain't that Bad to change the Timing Gears,... Right in the Boat, If you have the Space in front of the motor.......

Bond-o.... That is just what I wanted to hear. Can't imagine that I have the energy to pull that engine again. There is six feet of room in front of the engine -- I have converted the boat to fishing for two and there is no place for a third guy to sit. Much room to work. How do I go about it in general? I have a shop manual but it talks in terms of pulling the engine.

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

Should have mentioned, all valves are hopping high so lifters are pumped up. When I roll it very slowly by hand, everything seems to happen too soon -- example: at exactly BDC the intake is just about closed when I think it should have about another 30 degrees after BDC. But, as a direct gear drive, how could this slip?

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine mess

I wouldn't pull the front of the motor apart untill you check the valve adjustment and making sure all the valves are moving. There are 2 gears in the front, if it jumps a gear, it will jump more than one tooth and it won't run at all.

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

I check the valve lash till I couldn't move the pushrods and then went around one turn down on the rocker nuts. At TDC for #1, I did the intakes on 1, 2 and 4 and the exhausts on 1 and 3, and at TDC for #4, I did the intake for 3 and the exhausts for 2 and 4. All looked ok to me....

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine mess

That's great. unless one of the lifters is sticking. Then that full turn could really hurt you by holding a valve slightly open.
Do all the valves look like they are fully closed when you turn the engine over by hand? You might also try backing off the adjustment on all the valves a half turn and seeing how it runs.
This is just kind of an easy test for the non-pro. I doubt you have a dial indicator to check them.

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

I figured out what I did wrong. I have been using the pump pully with two extended bolts and a long bar to roll the engine and I recall hitting a tight spot that I mistook for a cold engine and good compression and I think I forced it. I heard a loud squeek but too late to stop the roll. So I suspect I sheered off the key in the damper which now shows up as a 20 degree spark advance. The problem is: I can repair that pully ok but I don't know what caused the tight spot and then there is the bad compression on #3. Are they related? So "mess" is a good subject description.
Any guesses? Should I deep-six the thing?

I am about to give up on my old 1986 SVC 195 SS engine and outdrive. Questions:
(1) What is the best place to find a new complete system assuming I have the dress units (starter, alternator, manafold, distributor, carb, etc) and old bellhousing?
(2) Is the difference in cost worth the new verses rebuilt units? As a senior citizen, I am not concerned about resale.
(3) What do you guys recommend for ratios if the boat is now full-time in non-commercial trolling (two 12 lb downriggers)?
(4) Finally, I love the boat and its conversion for fishing so I am keeping it (and the bellhousing I guess). If cost is no concern, what is the best engine/outdrive combination as to make, model, etc. ?

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

Bad edit. Should read "If I give up on my old 1986 SVC 195 SS engine and outdrive....."

And manafold is a typing error. Should read "manifold". Hate errors....

 

[Bondo]

Re: Engine mess

Bruce,...... It's alittle Early to Throw in the Towel,+ Start Over.......

I think you might have a Couple of things going on,.....

Can you get the thing Running Now,..??..??....

With it idling and the Valve Cover Off, Adjust the Valves,.....
Loosen each rockernut til it Rattles, Cinch it to Quiet,+ Then another 3/4 turn......
It's Messing,... But No Doubt Accurate,+ Easy......
Collasped, Struck Lifter or Not,...... The Valves will be Right......

Now,..... The Timing..........
With all the Sparkplugs Out,..... Use a plastic straw or something similar to Feel #1 piston come to TDC,........
Is the Crankshaft Timing Mark Right,..??..??.....

The 3.0l motor has a Harmonic Balancer,.... If it Slips,... The Timing Mark Moves.......

So,..... It May Not be the Timing Gears At All......

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

Can't get it running at all now. Yes, I do believe the balancer with the pully slipped. Now the problem is to figure out what caused the tight spot. And do I have to tear it all down again! Rats! Thanks Bond-o.......

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine mess

I couldn't imagine how much force you would have had to use to shear the key on the crank pulley. For one thing, the pulley has to be pressed on, second, to sheer the key itself with a slip fit is going to take a lot of force, but with the pulley pressed on, it's probably impossible to do.
My bet is, you had a valve or two too tight, the piston hit the valve a little and that was your tight spot. Probably bent a valve a little and that is why the compression is a bit low.
My thought would be to find a pro to check it out and see what is really going on. That would be a lot cheaper than throwing everything out and starting over.

 

[Bruce53]

Re: Engine mess

Don S.... I suspect you have it right on the piston hitting a valve. Hadn't thought of that one and, sure, it would explain the 95 lbs and the tight spot. But why then would the timing be so far advanced? All the pros are tied down now fixing commercial fishing boats so I guess I will lift the head tomorrow and have a look at the valves in #3. Then find some auto shop that would put in a new valve and guide. Still think I sheered the key and will let you know. Many thanks for the help....

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine mess

If you think you sheered it, pull it apart and look.
No one here has a crystal ball or limitless vision where we can see what you see. I have had many customers complain about a problem and thinking they needed a new engine, till they finally brought it in and let me work on it.
15 minutes later they were running perfect, because they didn't know what to look for or when they seen the problem they didn't recoginize it as the problem.
Pro's don't become Pro's by reading forums. It's done by working on them daily and gaining experience and using the manuals to understand what is going on and how to do things the easy way.