won't start sometimes

[dshen56]

Hi, I have a 1994 celebrity 200 status boat. Some times whe i try to start my boat it won't start. What I mean is when I turn the key, all the gauges come up,but you have to bump the key several times and it finally turns over and starts. It dose this time to time and I don't want to get stranded out on the lake. Any idea what might be going on?

 

[Ray D]

Re: won't start sometimes

Do you have fuel injection? If not you should "pump" the throtle once or twice before turning over.

 

[sixholdens]

Re: won't start sometimes

Could you clarify. You say you turn the key and the gauges come on but the engine doesn't start. Does the starter engage? Do you hear a "thunk" but no sound of the engine turning?
When you turn the key to start the engine, does the starter engage each time and then eventually cause the engine to turn and start?
Troubleshooting is much easier when you provided detailed data about what is or is not occuring.

 

[dshen56]

Re: won't start sometimes

The boat has a carb.what dose it do by pumping throtle?IT acts like something is not making contact untill you bump it several times and then catches and starts up. Thanks for help.

 

[dshen56]

Re: won't start sometimes

The starter dose not engauge but I do here a sound ( not very loud under engine cover probably by starter or solenoid ?)Like a clicking noise

 

[Coors]

Re: won't start sometimes

Clean and grease all contacts from the battery to the start, and all solenoids. The same for all grounds too.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: won't start sometimes

If the starter is spinning but not engaging, there is a gear on the top of the starter that allows the gear that engages the flywheel to raise up and engage the flywheel. That gear is binding and needs to be lubricated. You can hold the starter shaft and try to move the gear the engages the starter to see if it takes effort to move..

 

[WAVENBYE2]

Re: won't start sometimes

Mine did the same thing. Have you checked and cleaned the STARTER SLAVE SOLENOID, or the ignition switch, every one on this site told me to check and clean all the connections that has to do with (starter,solenoids,etc..) Did mine and haven't had a prob. since.>>PAT

 

[sixholdens]

Re: won't start sometimes

The starter dose not engauge but I do here a sound ( not very loud under engine cover probably by starter or solenoid ?)Like a clicking noise

That clicking noise is probably the starter solenoid trying to engage the starter. If the bendix (that is the moving gear on the starter) does not properly mesh with the flywheel, the solenoid will not be able to make the internal contacts that provide the high current required for the starter motor to turn.
I reccommend you pull the starter and check the bendix for excess wear. More than likely it is worn out. Lubing it might give you a few more months of use but since you have it out you might as well replace it. Cost a lot less than a starter. Or better yet, replace the whole thing and get one that is garanteed forever.

 

[Coors]

Re: won't start sometimes

Clean all the connections before you bother to pull the starter; it's easier, and needs to be ruled out first.

 

[WAVENBYE2]

Re: won't start sometimes

OH YA, I forgot to mention, Check and clean both ends of your negative and Positive battery terminals too..PAT

 

[freddyray21]

Re: won't start sometimes

That clicking noise is probably the starter solenoid trying to engage the starter. If the bendix (that is the moving gear on the starter) does not properly mesh with the flywheel, the solenoid will not be able to make the internal contacts that provide the high current required for the starter motor to turn.
I reccommend you pull the starter and check the bendix for excess wear. More than likely it is worn out. Lubing it might give you a few more months of use but since you have it out you might as well replace it. Cost a lot less than a starter. Or better yet, replace the whole thing and get one that is garanteed forever.

The bendix won't do anything if the solenoid is not working. The solenoid has to provide the power to the starter. As it has been said clean all the connections including the grounds. If the solenoid is still stubborn it probably needs replacing. Your's sounds like a classic case of corroded connections. Even if they look good take them apart and clean them with a bit of sand paper or a wire brush. The copper should have a bit of a shine to make good connections. Copper oxidizes in air and no longer will make a good contact. Some grease around the connections will make them last longer, but after awhile they will still oxidize.

 

[dshen56]

Re: won't start sometimes

Thanks for for looking at my thread. I will check everything you folks said to do. Thanks again Derrick

 

[Don S]

Re: won't start sometimes

In stead of randomly checking things because they have happend to other people, troubleshoot the system like this.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167035

 

[sixholdens]

Re: won't start sometimes

The bendix won't do anything if the solenoid is not working. The solenoid has to provide the power to the starter. As it has been said clean all the connections including the grounds. If the solenoid is still stubborn it probably needs replacing. Your's sounds like a classic case of corroded connections. Even if they look good take them apart and clean them with a bit of sand paper or a wire brush. The copper should have a bit of a shine to make good connections. Copper oxidizes in air and no longer will make a good contact. Some grease around the connections will make them last longer, but after awhile they will still oxidize.

GM style starters use a "solenoid" as the magnetic power to move a "slug" that is attached to a yoke, that moves the bendix into the flywheel. Additionally the "slug" has a rod (or hits one) at one end that presses the motor's electrical contactor together to provide large ammounts of current for turning a large load.
Other manufacturers (Ford style) use "solenoids" to do the electrical portion and the rotating motor shaft to force the bendix into the flywheel, basically moving the motor contactor out of the starter.
If the bendix is bad, as in worn out, the solenoid does not have the power to fully engage it into the flywheel, causeing the other end with the rod to NOT make the contactor that provides the current to turn the motor.
The person who is having this problem has stated that there is a clicking sound and after several tries, the engine will start. Those "several tries" of trying to jam the bendix into the flywheel probably cause enough movement to get it aligned so that it can finally move into position allowing the contact to be made.
You can clean connections all day long, and that is a good thing to do, but the description of the problem leads me to believe he has a mechanical failure that needs attention.
Hopefully all things will work out and we will hear the "fix" that worked.

 

[sixholdens]

Re: won't start sometimes

In stead of randomly checking things because they have happend to other people, troubleshoot the system like this.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167035

PLEASE READ THIS!!!
The likd to the article and the article are good EXCEPT this section:
If you are out and need to start the engine, you can disconnect the wires from terminals B and C and hook them together and you will be able to bypass the slave solenoid all together and it should work.

If you connect B and C and then try to start you engine with the ignition switch, you could start a fire, ruin your ignition switch or worse. B is the termminal where low amounts of current are applied to energize the solenoid. C is where HIGH CURRENT is output to the starter motor from A, the main battery connection.
If you try to turn your starter motor with the low current connection, it will try to draw as much current as it can, overheating the wire and possibly burning out your ignition switche's contacts and worst case, starting a fire.

Best bypass of the solenoids contact is from A to C and it might not work if the solenoid fails to move the bendix into the fly wheel. You can remove the solenoid and manually move the "slug" to engage the bendix/flywheel. Once running it should disengage by itself but might not.

 

[Don S]

Re: won't start sometimes

If you connect B and C and then try to start you engine with the ignition switch, you could start a fire, ruin your ignition switch or worse. B is the termminal where low amounts of current are applied to energize the solenoid. C is where HIGH CURRENT is output to the starter motor from A, the main battery connection.

There is no high current draw. The B wire on the Starter Solenoid is what is being energized by the B terminal of the Slave Solenoid.
It is NOT trying to supply power to operate the starter motor, only to engage the solenoid. Well within the rehlm of 16ga. wire.
Boats used a single wire for many years going from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid before going to the slave solenoid.

 

[sixholdens]

Re: won't start sometimes

There is no high current draw. The B wire on the Starter Solenoid is what is being energized by the B terminal of the Slave Solenoid.
It is NOT trying to supply power to operate the starter motor, only to engage the solenoid. Well within the rehlm of 16ga. wire.
Boats used a single wire for many years going from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid before going to the slave solenoid.

Thanks for the heads up.
I will admit to being new to boats and how they are wired up. My particular experience with the one in my yard does not have a "slave" solenoid to isolate the "B" terminal from high current loads, the ignition switch goes directly to the starter solenoid, same as a few million GM autos. Is my boat wired up wrong, possibly, it was that way when I got it.
I am not at home so can't do another review of the PDF file to see if I missed something, it's possible.
To me the use of a "slave" solenoid in between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid is redundant and just makes that many more "spark" points for a fire due to more connections that can fail.
If we were dealing with long distances and the weight of the wire was a problem, then I would say a "slave" solenoid was called for.
I have not read up on the requirements for wiring a boat so guess I better go there next and learn those too. My 89 model is a bit older than his 94......