1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

[doctorH]

First timer here. Very impresed with the knowledge displayed. Wow!

I need you guys ...My local $100/hr mechanic recommends I find the deepest part of the lake, unbolt my motor, give it a shove, and buy new. Hope you guys can save me!

Patient: 1986 Evinrude 150XP seriel number E150stlcdc

Symptoms: After work described below, this motor will always run great at idle and intermittantly/frequently at full speed (48mph) then out of nowhere hiccup, loose spark?/fuel? and even without touching the throttle, bog down. It doesn't die it just self idles down to 3-5mph and chugs sickly along...then for no random reason catches spark/fuel and takes off like a scalded cat, back to full throttle control, game on...then soon loses high power again or may run for 1/2 a day then lose power? Idle response and RPM capablities are unaffected, only throttle response/RPM's when in gear? Is this the VRO, Power packs? Intermittent spark, why? stator, timer base? HELP! I'm thinking of buying two new power packs but my wife is frowning on my "repair by replacement" costs.


Work history:
Compression tested 85/80/85/80/85/75. Fuel pressure tested 3-5psi at all speeds/rpm, (VRO nervously in use), Stator Ohm tested ok, sensor coils ohm ok, ex-mechanic says #2 and #4 loosing spark intermitantly and occasionally, 2,4,6 had no spark? Originally the buzzer buzzed constantly but then last time out Buzzer buzzed intermittantly ever other second. (limped home with E-trolling motor) I have tried swapping over parts from the second motor but ther is no quarentee they are perfect? They didn't change symptoms anyway. I have not checked temp sensors? I have a seloc manual and parts diagrams but have no definitive answer for where to go from here?

When purchased loose flywheel magnets had destroyed the stator and timer base. (supposedly ran great prior, then sat for I guess 3-4 years) I found an exact entire parts motor on Ebay. So far I have resurected and installed new/used flywheel, stator, and timer base, I rebuilt all three carbs, replaced all hoses, tried both VRO pumps, swaped out used power paks and coils, stators, timer base assemblies, and ? from other motors but that hasan't / doesn't change symptoms?

Any thoughts out there? I've read old threads here and have heard everything from new power paks, de-carb, rebuild #6, eliminate the VRO, squeeze the fuel bulb (tried, and only randomly makes a difference.. maybe) and ? Is the rectifier/regulator involved?

Any help narrowing the possible cause(s) would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Your 150 is the XP model rated at around 165 horsepower. It is probably worth saving. You can't rule out your stator or timer base till you do the output test, with a special peak-reading voltmeter. When the engine starts to drop a cylinder, put a timing light on each plug wire and check for strong, constant flashes. You can see weak, or intermittent flashes, leading to a solution. Before you buy new packs, switch them and see if the misfires move with the pack. The engine should run between 143 and 150 degrees normal. A constant horn is an indication of an overheat problem-over 212 degrees. Perhaps a water pump or clogged/malfunctioning thermostat. When you get the hot horn, the engine will go into SLOW mode, limiting the engine rpm's to around 2500 until the engine gets back down to around 175 degrees (still hot.) A constant intermittent horn is a VRO problem. A long intermittent (every 20 seconds) horn is the low oil sensor in the remote oil tank. You need to resolve the horn issue before you go out again. Usually a bad rectifier/regulator show up when the tach starts to act up-odd readings. Your engine compression is a little low. Should be in the 90-95 range. Make sure all the plugs are out when taking the compression. I would run a can of Bombardier engine tuner through it and see if it come up a few lbs. The best service manual is the original OMC one, available from Ken Cook Co. in Milwaukee. You might ask for an owner's manual also. Online OMC catalogs are available at epc.brp.com.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

here's a little info for you. http://www.boatpartstore.com/page35.asp

i assume you are using a built in tank, has anyone looked at the fuel/water separator.

 

[72SideWinderSS]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Another source for the constant horn is the fuel restriction indicator.

My 85 150hp had the VRO 2 upgrade and has it. (Manual should be here today)

Another cause of intermittent spark, some mechanics grease all the wire connectors and that can cause problems, it did on mine.

 

[doctorH]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Wow again! it is only 10:00am and i have 3 expert opinions!

Thanks for the advice. I had only the one spark plug out when doing the compression test. I will locate a timing light and do as directed. When testing for ohm resistance on the timer base and stator I assume I disconnect all wire connections and test the part as if it was on the work bench, or do i leave it connected to ?.

As for the water fuel seperator I have never checked nor located it? (I drained all the extremely bad gas from the on board tank and replaced all lines to and from tanks, carberators etc. ) How do I tell if this is a VRO 2 upgrade? I tried the VRO pump and power packs from the other motor and got the same symtpoms. As for the temperature sensors. I have never looked for, found, or checked those. How many are there? Are they easy to test and/or change? What's your thoughts on bypassing the VRO and pre-mixing oil and fuel to a 50-1 or 75-1 ratio in the tank, just to be safe?

Thanks again for the advice. I will do some homework and get back to you all. I appreciate your time.

 

[doctorH]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Well, it is me again. I ahve not been able to test the stator with a voltmeter but when checking the spark with a timing light while the motor was in the yard with muffs it ran O.K. for a while then suddenly lost spark cadence on the port side in all three 2, 4,6,. I swapped over the port power pack to the starboard side and after some difficulty starting, assucmdely from the resiual oiland fuel in the port chambers the timing light flashes were o.k. on the starboard side until the engined coughed and lost any flash on the #1 and #5 coil. Can I assume this confirms a bad power pack?

Secondly, while doing this testing a terrible dense exhaust smoke billowed out filling my garage and yard. I guessed this to be from incomplete burning on the port side but i was also concerned the VRO pump was creating a super rich oil ratio becasue of a vacuum leak. I watched the fuel squirt out a clear hose I had teed off the hose just after the VRO and it was pulsing foamy fuel ? (The warning horn was also going off for one second every 5 seconds even though the oil tank is 3/4 full and I had just started the motor? )

Should i buy a new power pack, replace the thermostats, and maybe convert away from a VRO and just pre-mix? (what is the link for how to eliminate a VRO?)

Any thoughts? Thanks....

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Probably is a bad power pack-time to replace it. Hopefully this will take care of your electrical miss. Test the warning horn by disconnecting the wires to the oil tank. If it quits, the oil tank sensor is bad.

 

[Melvin Hatcher]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Probably is a bad power pack-time to replace it. Hopefully this will take care of your electrical miss. Test the warning horn by disconnecting the wires to the oil tank. If it quits, the oil tank sensor is bad.

His motor's hiccup system sounds exactly like my 1985 XP 150. From the loose flywheel magnets to all of the electronics except the coils and spark plug wires. now she purrs like a kitten. I even swapped out the VRO for the new four wire OMS and a new tank, oil pick screen and new hoses. I could not be happier with my engine. It sure was cheaper than a new engine.
OBTW, I would take the one hundred hour (so called) mechanic out to the deepest part of the lake and tell him to walk home. Since, I don't usually fish in a lake I would have to take him about fifteen to twenty out in the Bay and tell him to walk home.

Regards,

Melvin

 

[mikesea]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

perhaps 2 problems,you seem to have found by elimination a bad powerpack,but it seems like you have a fuel restriction somewhere,have you noticed the squeeze ball to collapse,if so it could mean an obstruction before the ball,coild be something floating in the tank,might be a bad fuel tank vent that at high speed wont allow the engine to get the fuel it needs ,you can try loosening the fuel cap to allievate that problem,you can run on a portable tank to insure its not an eng problem,be sure to supply with3/8 hose,sometimes a floating object in the tank can be sucke into the pick up tube,the fact your alarm sounded probably was a fuel restriction signal,the over oiling could be the vro delivered oil,but didnt have fuel for a period of time,botom line,look for fuel restriction,after changing questionable pack since you have spares

 

[doctorH]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Well, here's the latest. I got bored waiting for my new power pack and themostats and wnet ahead and changed the water pump housing and impeller. I didn't see anything wrong with the old one but I had it apart and I had no idea when it was changed last. I ran it with muffs in the yard and immediately water leaked out around the flat cover between the power heads. I tightened up the very loose bolts all around which stopped the leaking. I figure the new pump must be creating much more water pressure. This is a good thing right?

Then, because it was still smoking out the neighbors and I feared the VRO was just over-mixing the oil ratio I took the plunge and disconnected the oil side of the VRO and pre-mixed oil in the gas. (50:1 I think)

Re-started it in my drive-way and it ran well untill I discoved the Number 2 top port, spark was again cutting out, missing? (remember i thought i had discovered and switched the bad power pack to the starboard side) This means it was not a bad power pack.! I swaped out a coil at that cylinder and that corrected the missing erractic sparking.

Took the boat to the lake, (no new parts installed yet) and it ran well! Yeah. Maybe it was the water pump? Maybe the coil? Maybe the VRO, Maybe it is no longer overheating and kicking into S.L.O.W. mode? I don't know but if it keeps running I don't care.

What ratio should I mix and what is the best Oil for an old motor like mine?

thanks again

 

[doctorH]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Sorry I forgot to add that next time out I'm planning on running some seafoam engine treatment through it to clean out the carbon build - up from the over oiling. Is this a good idea? Bombadier brand is harder to find...

Lastly, the idle seems too slow/rough, it wants to cut out when shifting from neutral to forward if I'm not quick about it? It will idle fine if I switch it into neurtral and move the throttle forward half but I don't like shifting into gear with the RPM's up. How do I adjust the slow idle? just turn the stop screw or is it more comlicated than that? On my old 35 horse seaking I could just turn the small dial on the carburetor settings but this motor has none. Any help is greatly appreciated. You guys have been great! Randall

Thanks again

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Good luck with your trouble shooting.

In regards to your VRO fuel pump issue, the article linked below is very good, and I think you should read it before you give up on the oil injection fuel pump. It not only has good basic info, but specifically addresses the problem of over oiling, and foaming fuel.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

It is the same information that is provided in the VRO FAQ here on iboats, but formatted easier to read and an excellent graphic diagram of the VRO pump.

I think your over-oiling/foaming issue could be fairly easily solved. Having been a pre-mixer for many years, I understand the benefits and drawbacks of premixing. My opinion is to stick with the oil injection fuel pump, maybe upgrade it. I get tired of premixing and it isn't as foolproof as people say it is.

Again, good luck - those electrical problems can be very difficult and expensive to troubleshoot. Please keep us posted.

 

[doctorH]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

I know it's been a long time but here's the final update if your curious.

I'm not sure what finally made the difference but after replacing one power pak, a faulty coil, a bottle of seafoam, and bypassing the VRO with pre-mixed gas my motor finally works! It still smokes too much for my liking though?. I'm hoping the smoke problem will decrease after I burn some "Bombadier de-carb" through it, lean out the gas/oil , and change the spark plugs again (The $100/hr mechanic says the shop manual quoted the wrong ones?)

Any experts out there with advice as to the best gas/oil ratio and what is the best 2-cycle oil?

One last question: Do you have any suggestions where I can look to learn how to set the synch and timing on this engine?

Thanks again for all the advice. I couldn't have done it without you all! I should probably pay you guys for all the advice. Who do I thank/pay for saving me $8,000-10,000K for a new motor?

 

[Melvin Hatcher]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but, the correct gas/oil ratio is 50-1.

I don't know what is the best oil but, I use BRP's XD-50 injected via BRP's latest oiling system "OMS" and smoking is minimal or is at an acceptable level. The OMS replaces the VRO.

As for spark plugs, I use QL77JC4 gapped @ .030 again I am not an expert and don't command a $100.00 an hour shop fee but, I would recommend you using this spark plug chart to make your selection for your engine.
http://www.boatsetup.com/Spark Plug Chart 2007 BRP.pdf

As for your link/sync timing and all aspects of your engine. I suggest that you purchase a shop/service manual for the year make and model of your engine from Ken Cook, I did for my engine.
http://www.outboardbooks.com/

I hope this tidbit of information will be helpful. Again I don't command a $100.00 an hour fee however, my fee is your freindship whenever we cross paths.

Regards,

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

Some thoughts on the smoke issue. If you have a lot of exhaust smoke, it is possible the engine is running cold. Check the block for temps when you have it running for 5 minutes. Should be between 143 and 150. A cold running engine will smoke somewhat more. Could be due to thermostats stuck open or damaged/melted pressure relief valves letting water bypass. Premixing will cause more smoke than running a VRO. I'd check the recirculation system on the engine. Make sure it is operating properly and that all the check valves are working. Also, check the recirc hoses for cracks/leaks.

 

[fire-engine]

Re: 1986 150xp evinrude anchor or motor?

when you said bypass vro did you block it off? if not you could be getting double dose of oil.