Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

[ndnflyr]

I am New to Forum;
I just aquired a boat with 350 Alpha 1 generation 2 very few hours since new in 1995. Boat has not run for 8 years. Original Starter is a Delco Remay gear reduction drive. I took starter apart cleaned internal parts, replaced soleniod with new. Starter rebuild shop tested starter and was OK. When Starter is bench tested, Soleniod engages, starter runs. Problem: I install starter and starter runs but drive gear never engages in flywheel to turn over engine. Inspection of flywheel reveals All teeth on flywheel appear as new. Inspection shows where drive gear will hit bottom half of flywheel tooth but never engages. Battery is new with full charge. Also replaced remote soleniod with new Mercruiser Soleniod. There were no shims when I removed starter from engine to fit starter . It appears like starter drive gear is spinning to fast to let it engage the flywheel teeth. I have measured depth to be sure drive gear has enough travel to engage flywheel and it does. BTW Engine will turn over by hand. Can anybody offer a suggestion?

ndnflyr

 

[Don S]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Look at the picture below, your yellow/red stripped wire MUST be hooked to the B terminal. Sounds like you may have it on the C terminal.

That, or your battery is so low it won't push the solenoid all the way in, or even loose connections some where.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Welcome to iboats......
First, I would make sure that it is the right one.....
Just because it bolts up does not mean that it is right......
Either that or something got missed in the rebuild.....
I'd wager that something is still wrong with the starter internals.....
& would either have it professionally done or buy a new one, a bad starter is something that will ruin your day on the water......
Make sure all of your electrical connections are clean.....​

 

[ndnflyr]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

I have a New fully charged battery. Have manual and have attached all wires according to manual which is also like your illustration (Thanks a picture is always appreciated). I have tested starter according to manual and it is checks OK. All electrical connections were cleaned with sand paper/ wire brush. Another forum stated that it is typical of starter needing shimmed. Manual mentions this but does not illustrate shim or procedure. Does anyone know where shim goes (bolt holes between starter and block, Front of starter between block and starter?) Are shims just washers or the shape if starter where it mates to block?
Thanks for all the help.
ndnflyr

 

[MikDee]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

The solenoid on the starter is actually a large electromagnet, with power to the proper terminals, it should energize, and engage (push out the drive gear), as the starter motor spins (or spools up) to crank the flywheel.

 

[ndnflyr]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Thanks for your explanation. I sometimes lack proper terminology and may seem to lack understanding. Here is an update:
I found shims at Advanced Auto parts. I installed the shims and the starter still winds up without engaging the flywheel. I removed starter leaving wires attached (battery +12v and yellow red from soleniod) to observe if the drive gear actually worked when energized. Upon making contact (-12v and truning key) , starter drive spun as expected with gear flying to the end of shaft then retracting after de-energized. I repeated several times holding blade of screwdriver where flywheel would be to see how much force drive gear has from soleniod. Seemed adequate to engage. I then inspected flywheel to see if drive gear was making contact with flywheel. I could see where drive gear was making contact on the outside edge top 1/8 inch of 2 teeth on flywheel but never engaging the flywheel teeth. It appears that it is spinning to fast to engage or the soleniod does not have enough power to engage gear. As I said before soleniod is new and battery is new with full charge. Now do I replace starter or look for something different. Any Ideas? Is the soleniod supposed to energize 1st pulling drive gear into place before starter spools up or is it simultaneous? It seems if gear was touching flywheel before turning it would mesh (engage) once it started to turn. I have removed this starter and reinstalled it about 15 times trying to figure it out. Fortunately it has easy access. Let me know your ideas of what possibly could be the problem. This is the original 1995 starter and boat has less than 200 hours total time in use.
Thanks
ndnflyr

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

First a question, when the starter engages what do you hear? Is the starter continue to spin or does it stop?

Look again at the flywheel teeth, if the starter continued to spin you would see signs of distruction left by the starter teeth.

Make sure you do not have a problem within the reduction unit or outpput shaft, then

It's rare but the armature of the starter is a series of sheet metal plates pressed onto a fine splined shaft, then the coils are wound into and around the combined plates. The motor appears fine but when a load is placed on it, the starter is engaged, the armature 'slips' on the shaft. The motor is running but the shaft itself is not turning.

Replace the starter or the armature if you can get the part cheaper than the whole.

 

[Coors]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Use a screw driver or anything, and turn the flywheel 5 inches.
the engine always stops at 120 degrees, nature of the beast, flywheel rings get worn there.
You really have to heard the noise a lot, in order to know the shims.
More shim towards the oil pan moves it out. Move it out, then bring it in.
Do that, and if it hooks the gear ring, then adjust in until it sounds good.

 

[Don S]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

I hate to think how many starters I have changed on boats over the last 20+ years being a marine mechanic, but I have NEVER seen shims needed on any of the marine engines.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Ditto to None needed shims.

No, I lied, One, and I do mean only one, out of umteen hundreds and...........

 

[Coors]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

I hate to think how many starters I have changed on boats over the last 20+ years being a marine mechanic, but I have NEVER seen shims needed on any of the marine engines.

I stand corrected, as a Gm trained mechanic, and bow to the Lord.

 

[Don S]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

I stand corrected, as a Gm trained mechanic, and bow to the Lord.

Explain to me why GM never needed the shims on marine engines, your the GM trained mechanic. I only know Volvo and Merc marine engines (GM 3.0L, 4.3L, 5.7L, 7.4L, 8.1L) but none of them have shims from Volvo and Merc............ WHY????

 

[dummy111]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

. I only know Volvo and Merc marine engines
??????????????

 

[dummy111]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

The way I heard it, 50% of the time. if it was to be perfect-shims were needed.
The "old fossil" OMC techs use them on all gm engines, and never have a call-back.

 

[Don S]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Well dummy, or coors, which ever you want to be called since you are both posting from the same IP address of 24.129.215.182
If you have to hide behind another name, I have no need to explain or discuss anything with you.

 

[ndnflyr]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

1st let me thank all for responding. Here is more history: This boat is a 1995 and has not run since 1997. The boat has very few hours. I was told by original owner that it has less than 100 hours in the water but it was not stored inside so it was exposed to the elements. Engine exterior looks new. Manifolds have original paint. I am sure that the starter was original and has never been removed before me. Now for answering questions:
The starter continues to run as long as the key is in start position. I have turned flywheel 360 degrees observing teeth. There is no damage to flywheel teeth. The flywheel is covered with surface rust so any place the drive gear makes contact there is evidence of surface rust missing but no damage. I will check the armature again and all internal componants of starter. When I first disassembled the starter, it was filled with rust and would not turn. Brushes were stuck in the sleeves but were very close to original length (very little wear) . After cleaning starter and removing all the rust reassembled and it spooled up great but soleniod would not energize or move so I replaced it. I did not check out the gear reduction part and beyond since they turned free and were not rusty still covered with original grease. I did try to put pressure on drive gear while it was spinning and did not notice any slipping. I have turned the flywheel and have observed the teeth in several areas. They all appear as new showing no wear except for surface rust. I have owned only outboards before. I have wrenched on lawnmowers to aircraft but it sure looks like most auto engines. I do not have any experience with the light weight starters tho. Maybe just a week soleniod even tho it is new but it snaps with force when energized. Appreciate all your suggestions and ideas.
Dan (ndnflyr)

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

could the bendix gear itself be bad. turned by hand it should be free in 1 direction and lock in the other.

 

[Don S]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Along the same lines, does it start to turn the engine over and then only the starter spins? That could be just a bad Bendix.

 

[ndnflyr]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

The gear moves one direction but not the other so assume it is OK

 

[ndnflyr]

Re: Merruiser Alpha 350 Starter won't Engage?

Engine never turns. The teeth in flywheel have never been engaged by drive gear.