Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

[WallDiver7]

Here's the poop:

Boat: 1999 1850LS Bayliner Capri, 4.3L V6, Mercruiser sterndrive (gen. II)
Problem:
1. "Something" growls/vibrates when I turn ONE direction while around 35mph. At 50mph, the growl/vibration isn't there.... or I can't hear it. At the 1/2 throttle setting, I have noticed that when I turn the boat the direction that the growling starts, the boat's speed is scrubbed back quite a bit.

2. When the drain plug is pulled at the end of the day, I get no more than 1/2 cup of water. ( as long as we haven't been getting in and out of it into the lake... skiers, divers, swimmers.... etc.)

**I am assuming that since the boat takes on so little water that all the bellows are water tight. Yes?

Questions:
1. Is this gimbal bearing failing?

2. Could this noise just be that the engine is now out of alignment? (This growling noise has very slowly grown louder over the past 4 years. The first couple of years the noise was just intermittent.)
-----------------------------------------------

AS soon as the season is over, I plan to tear the sterndrive down and have a look. Any help, suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

WallDiver7

 

[Don S]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

**I am assuming that since the boat takes on so little water that all the bellows are water tight. Yes?

I wouldn't assume that, pull the drive and have a look at things. Your problem is probably bad ujoints.
Rule of thumb: Noise when turning ujoints, noise when trimming up and down, gimbal bearing. And don't forget, rules of thumb are NOT written in stone and are often wrong.

PUll the drive.

 

[thrasher]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Also there is a grease seal between the engine and the gimbal bearing, so if the seal is in good condition you could have water in the bellows and it would not leak into the boat!!
As Don suggests, it is really easy to opull the outdrive and check the drive shaft and UV joints plus the bellow.

Gary

 

[Rob454]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

my bayliner does the exact same thing. it ended up being the Gymball bearing. it got water in there. the NEW bellows boot has a small small hole in it that I didnt notice. I bhought it brand new but what probably happend is someone put it on and put the hole in it and then returned it and they put it back on the shelf.
Either way the u joints are fine but the bearing has a harsh grinding noise when I turn it by hand. There is a grease fitting on the outdrive ( at least there is on mine) that may lube it back up but if its grinding then its pretty much wasted.
Either way you gotta pull the drive so you might as well grease everything up. needs to be doen yearly from what i understand
Rob

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

DonS, Thrasher, Rob,

Thanks for your comments. It would appear that from you comments that gimbal/ujoint problems are difficult to call until the drive is pulled.

WElllllll........ I was just hoping that I could collect the right parts/tools and be ready before pulling it apart, but it doesn't appear that is going to work.

Random, inserted, thought: This boat only has about 200 hours on it..... if that much. ( I bought this boat new.)

Last question: Would it be prudent of me to just plan on replacing both the Ujoints and gimbal bearing while I have it torn down? And it being wise (ha!), I would guess that I might as well order the Ujoint bellows and assume that it was leaking.

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

my bayliner does the exact same thing. it ended up being the Gymball bearing. it got water in there.

Rob,

Did you change out the gimbal b. yourself?

 

[thrasher]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

You could buy the gimble bearing and bellow before you tackled the job, but the bearing is around $70 and the bellows are about $100 so its a lot of money to pay out on the of chance those parts are bad. I would suggest pulling the oudrive, see whats wrong and then get the parts. My local shop had all the parts in stock so the only delay was to drive to the shop and back.. Beats wasting $170 for parts I don't need..

Gary

 

[95yj]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Just a note: Growling noise when turning can be either gimbal or u-joints. The u-joints in your outdrive are pretty sturdy and are factory sealed for life. They don't usually go unless your bellows are getting them soaked. A little water on the gimbal will cause it to rust and then the grinding noise. Once you hear this, you already have problems and they will get worse even with the boat out of the water sitting. More grease will not help.

Pull the drive, the sooner the better. Put the shifter in forward, disconnect the ram rods, remove the six drive to transom bolts and pull the drive off. If it is stuck, lift it a little and drop it and that should free it. It weighs around 80lbs so if you're not comfortably carrying that much, get someone to help, otherwise you can do it by yourself.

Now while you're in there, check the engine alignment and if you can't remember when the impeller was last changed, change that also.

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Once you hear this, you already have problems and they will get worse even with the boat out of the water sitting. More grease will not help.

The boat never stays in water..... it's always on the trailer in the garage if not in use.

Now while you're in there, check the engine alignment and if you can't remember when the impeller was last changed, change that also.

This will be the FIRST time the drive case is cracked open. I really need to change the WP impeller with less than 200 hrs? I guess I might as well since I'm in there! OK!

Thank you for your input!

 

[95yj]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Gen II impellers hold up better than the older ones, but they still recommend replacing them every couple years. (These are the guys selling parts and service.) However 200 hours or not, your impeller is over eight years old and if I had the drive off, I'd replace it.

Same with checking alignment which should be done every year especially as the boat gets older and mounts and stringers may start to settle.

Whether or not the boat sits in the water, IF the bellows are leaking causing the gimbal bearing to fail, everything on the drive shaft is rusting up more and more whether it's in your garage or on the water. The quicker you pull the drive, the easier it will be to pull it and hopefully the less damage needs to be fixed.

 

[hoot]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

my bellows cracked letting water into the gimbal brg which i replaced. u-joints felt ok so i greased them up good. next year, i hear the growling you are referencing. post here led me to look at the u-joints. eventhough they still felt ok, i pulled them and replaced. removed the cups and they were rippled up bad. lesson learned is to replace brg and joints if water gets in the bellows. it is just a matter of time until they both go bad.

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

my bellows cracked letting water into the gimbal brg which i replaced. u-joints felt ok so i greased them up good. next year, i hear the growling you are referencing. post here led me to look at the u-joints. eventhough they still felt ok, i pulled them and replaced. removed the cups and they were rippled up bad. lesson learned is to replace brg and joints if water gets in the bellows. it is just a matter of time until they both go bad.

Hey Hoot,

I appreciate your advice. Now, the shopping list will include (if water is present) a transom seal kit, WP impeller, and Ujoints. Thanks!

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Ok fellers.......

I finally popped the sterned drive off. It came off so easily and I was very surprised at how little torque was on those drive nuts; ABout 30 lbs if that much! What should those have been torqued at anyway?

I found NO water in the Ujoint bellows. I did find where all that grease was going that I've been squirting through the zirt fitting! Lots of grease in there!

The Ujoints look damn near new! I can detect no play in the Ujoints and, again, they LOOK and FEEL perfect.

After cleaning all the grease* out of the bellows and turning the gimbal bearning by hand (fingers) it appear that it had a MILD rough spot in it..... and I do mean a mildly rough spot in it. (*The grease, BTW, looked to be completely free of water. There wasn't any milkly white strands running through any of the grease I examined.)

ARe you fellows going to tell me that this has been the cause of the vibration/growling that I get when I turned to the LEFT?!

I'm trying to attach some pictures so that you can see for yourselves what shape this drive is in. .... but..... they keep failing to upload!

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Ok fellers.......
After cleaning all the grease* out of the bellows and turning the gimbal bearning by hand (fingers) it appear that it had a MILD rough spot in it..... and I do mean a mildly rough spot in it.

Any detectable "rough spot" is a sign the bearing needs to be replaced. It should feel smooth as silk when rotated.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

It coul be the reason. Also check your alignment. I found that perfect alignment can really quiet things down.

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

Monday I'll be ordering the gimbal bearing and an alignment "tool".

It's too bad I can't get these pictures to upload.... I think everyone would be amazed that I'm having to replace the G bearing when the insides are so prestine (ms?). I'm still scratching my head as to what caused this bearing failure.

Thanks for the help!

 

[WallDiver7]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

One more question:

Since the drive came off so easily, would that be an indication that engine alignment was within reasonable limits?

Here's the link for pictures .... in case anyone is NoT tired of looking at sterndrive guts.

http://www.flickr.com/gp/9626235@N05/77F1Ek

 

[bomar76]

Re: Gimbal Bearing? Diagnosis help Please!

One more question:

Since the drive came off so easily, would that be an indication that engine alignment was within reasonable limits?

No