'98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

[LeftyF]

Hi All

Last year I bought a 19' Sunbird Fish & Ski with a '98 Johnson 115 SPL. The engine was pressure tested and all looked good there, but I've had nothing but trouble starting it since. My starting procedure is 1) pump up the fuel line 2) turn the key on and wait for the initailization confirmation beep, then wait another 30 seconds 3) set the throttle to a bit more than half (I've also tried neutral throttle) 4) press and hold the key in for choke and turn the key. The engine will sound like it's not even trying to start. Eventually taking a few 1 minute breaks the engine will "pop" with some smoke, and 5 or 6 more cranks will start her up. It is intrestsing to note that if it's cool out (early AM around 75 degrees) she'll start right up. If it's hot out (above 80 degrees or so) I'll have the issue. Once it starts it runs like a top for the day. I've pulled the cowl while it's misbehaving and confirmed that the choke is engaging (solenoid is clicking). I've also replaced the plugs and put a fresh few tanks of fuel in her. I'm running 50:1 mix with tcw3 oil, in case you think I've gone and over oiled or run the wrong oil.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

 

[Dave Abrahamson]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

Hey Lefty,
I have a 97 115spl so I think we're in the same boat....so to speak.
Although I have no issues with mine, here is my starting procedure.
Battery switch on
Prime the bulb
Move the throttle lever to about a quarter forward (not in gear of course)
Turn the key to "on" not start
Push the key in for a good 8 count without turning the key
Turn the key to Start while still holding the key in
Let go as she fires and "bump the in key as nessesary to keep her going


I don't know what the 30 second wait is for after you've heard the beep. I've never done that. You'r motor may be different than mine.
Hope that helped a little, I'm certainly not one of the experts here.

Good Luck
Dave

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

dave, you are doing it right, i assume you have the control that has the push button to advance the throttle in neutral. advance the throttle as fas as it will go. it will only go so far in neutral. everything else you are doing right. if you have the lift idle lever raise it completely. when you push the key in can you hear the primer solenoid clik?

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

That's just what I was looking for! I'll give this a try Tomorrow and report back. I had a feeling if I posted my starting procedure there'd be somthing in there that needed tweaking. The 30 second wait was recommended by the mechanic that replaced my tach, telling me that it was a good idea to let the system intialize then settle in before attempting to start. He was also the one that told me to start it the way that's not been working so what can you do ;-)

I'll give this a go and see if it changes things...

PS - yes, I hear the solenoid click when I press in the key

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

Lefty, I have a 97 115 SPL also, and what Dave says is the exact correct way to start. Waiting for 30 seconds for the "system" to initialize sounds made up to me, these are not very high tech engines, the beep is just the system check testing the warning horn, there isn't a whole lot of "system" in there.

The one thing you mentioned about the choke is wrong, there is no choke. The primer solenoid takes the place of the choke and shoots fuel down the throats to start, that's the click you hear and also the reason for the solid 8 count, to let fuel squeeze down the throats.

I don't usually have to advance my throttle(timing) all too much to start cold, just about a 1/4 of the way and it will fire right off after holding the key in, also make sure you pump that bulb up good and tight. Advance as far as you need to, but you shouldn't have to go all the way, a 1/4 of the way up for me fires off at 2K, and I don't usually like to start any higher than that.

I think the temp issue will go away once you get the starting procedure down right, if not post it back.

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

I stopped at the dock on my way to work Today to try the 8 count pre-start and got the same result. I've got the bulb pumped up hard, and I tried the throttle at both 1/4 and full with the same result. When I was starting it this weekend when it was quite hot out I found that I had to squeeze the bulb about 20 times to get it to firm up, possibly due to an issue with the valves in the bulb. I assume it's not a big job to replace the bulb, so I think I'll pick up a new one on the way home.

I re-checked the manual for the engine last night for the starting procedures, and it states that the prime function only works when the engine is cranking or running? I assume this is in error, and at this point I trust you that are running this engine over the manual. Is there however a way that I can confirm that the prime function is working, beyond confirming that the solenoid is clicking?

Wherever the manual states "to avoid accidentally starting the engine" I find myself chuffing hysterical laughter, which is making my wife a bit nervous

Thanks in advance for ideas / confirmation

 

[ondarvr]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

I have a 98' 90hp SPL (same motor), if I advance the throttle at all it's much harder to start, so I leave it in the idle position. Pumping the bulb builds pressure so the primer will flow fuel even with it not running.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

The clicking tells you that the primer is working, it will initially squirt some fuel based off of the pressure built up when priming (pumping) the bulb, or so I have heard, and then when you leave it pushed in and crank it, it will continue to prime as you crank.

I have heard both arguments that the primer does nothing until cranking, as well as what I just said, but when I try to start without the 8 count, it just cranks away, the 8 count kicks it over in least than 2 cranks.

Do you have a strong battery? You need to be cranking at around 300 RPM to get a good cold start.

The only other thing I can think of is you may need a carb rebuild. Could explain why it starts better when cold, if you have one or more carbs running rich.

Try the primer bulb I guess, since they are cheap and do fail, try to mount in so that it is semi vertical, they seem to work better when they are not laying on the floor of the boat.

What type of spark plug are you running, I'm pretty sure you should be using the QL77JC4, I'd have to check for the '98 though.

Make sure your battery is strong and try the start procedure again after you put the bulb in, don't be afraid to crank away, I have seen people stop cranking after about 2 seconds, but give it a bit to spin and see what happens. It should be starting after about 3 or 4 cranks ofthe flywheel though.

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

Got it - thanks. I'll give it a try with the 8 count in neutral and see if that helps. I have a Die Hard deep cylcle I bought the end of last season that I just recharged on Sunday so that's putting out more than adequate amps. I had my boatyard replace the plugs as part of the recommission so that should not be an issue, though I'll need to confirm what plugs he used. It had the same issue before the plugs were done, so I don't think that's at the root. It could be that I'm not cranking long enough as I do stop if it doesn't fire in 3 or 4 seconds, so I'll try giving it a bit longer.

Thanks again and I'll report back Tonight after I give it another go

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

I went down to the boat this eve and tried starting her up with the throttle in neutral, a full s-l-o-w (1 one thousand 2 one thousand) 8 count and sure enough it started up on the second kick! Pushed the key in / let it out a few times to keep it running and it ran no problem. As I had already started it up this morning it's not a perfect test, but it was a very hot day and I did not take it out this AM so I am guardedly optimistic that this may be the trick for this engine. I'll wait a day, try again and confirm.

Thanks a ton to you all for the assist - this has been a big help!!!

Fred

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

What is the theory behind giving the throttle a 1/4 push forward? I have never done this myself. I have an older motor mind you, but just interested in the theory. I usually turn my batttery on, lift my start lever, lift the toggle for my choke while turning my key, then release the choke toggle when she fires, wait a couple secs then drop the start lever. Should I be throttling her a bit b4 start? Any pros? Ty each and all for your ideas.

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

I'm definitely no expert, but I'd say if the engine is starting reliably when you do that, do what you're doing. I'd think you'd only want to apply some throttle if you found it was starved for fuel after you got it to kick over.

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

I went to the dock this morning and started her up again using the 8 count procedure and the engine started on the second or third crank. You all are the best! This has been a point of stress with this boat since we bought her last year, and I can't thank you all enough for all your help. It's great that there are resorcues like this to get support, and I owe you all a great big thanks. If you're ever in the Connecticut area the beer's on me

Thanks again

Fred

 

[LeftyF]

Re: '98 Johnson 115 SPL - trouble starting?

As an update to this in case anyone else has this issue, it turned out that the primer solenoid was intermittently failing, particularly when it was hot. My mechanic would go test it on the way to work in the morning when it was cool and it would start fine. I'd go back at the end of the day when it had been baking in the sun and it would fail to start. It was working fine for a time around the time of this thread, so I thought it was my starting procedure. It got progressively worse over last season so my fear was that the engine was starting to fail. My boat yard hired a new mechanic this year who is intimately familiar with this engine so I asked that they do a pressure test and pull the heads to see if it needed a rebuild. The pressure test looked fine, so he swapped in a new solenoid, put on high compression head gaskets and changed the plugs and serviced the lower unit. Now it's like a brand new engine. Starts after maybe 3 rotations from a cold stop with an 8 count from the primer, re-starts every time from a warm stop with no primer. Very relieved that I don't have to rebuild or re-power! If you are having this issue it would be worth it to spring for a new primer solenoid and swap that out to confirm if this is the culprit.

Hope this helps someone else.