GM warranty / dealer woes...

[BF]

Hi y'all....

I've got an '03 Pontiac Montana that's still within the powertrain warranty. Last week it started a howling noise, which I figured is either a CV or front wheel bearing... took it to the dealer and they diagnosed bad bearing, which is covered under the warranty... so far so good, then they break the steering knuckle while removing the bearing cartridge, and when they call me to tell me this, they say they've talked to GM, and they've agreed to replace the knuckle under the same warranty claim because it was broken trying to do approved warranty work... so far so good, right?

My gripe is that they won't do an alignment on it after replacing the steering knuckle... the vehicle had a 4 wheel alignment done when it got new tires about 6 weeks ago. So, I'm PO'd that it looks as if I'll have to pay to have another alignment done to get it back to where it was before the warranty claim...

I'm still waiting for a return call from the service manager, but in the voicemail she left me, she said that alignments are maintenance items and not covered, and that the only way it would be out from replacing the knuckle would be that the toe could be out a bit. (which is my point). !?

Urghhh! This is the double edged sword of having a warranty... you get to deal with the dealerships and their "service managers". But, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting an alignment, am I??

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

They are testing your base threshold on this BF. Push back...they will give....talk to the General Manager and stress that it was there work that caused the issue. I'm pretty sure they will give it up.
Good Luck!!!

 

[BF]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

thanks for the support... yes I do intend to push, but I am so disgusted by these types of things, that's why I've decided having a warranty isn't that big of a deal (I bought the van used with residual warranty). I had so many equally silly warranty debates at one of the ford dealerships, that it struck me that it is misleading to have a warranty because the dealerships that I've been involved with seem to treat you like a 2nd class citizen if it is warranty work... as if they're not getting paid to do it. I had their "service manager" tell me that it was actually a good thing that my parking brake cable would stick (and bind up the back wheels), because it would warm the wheels up in the winter and the brakes would work better ?! That was the start of a conversation that only got stranger.

 

[rndn]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

I'm finding more and more I need to fight and push and scream and yell to get anything done right. Even if it's something obvious like you're talking about it is still an uphill battle.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

I have seen the battles..... used to work at Chevy now I am at Toyota. Warranty work is very limited to money..... usually involves only doing X instead of the XYZ. Possibly, they never figured the breakage into the equation....

Best answer..... if you do not receive satisfaction go higher to the dealer rep.

 

[Scoop]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

BF,
They should do the work. They broke the steering knuckle doing the work. GM will not pay them for it, but it was not needed until they broke the steering knuckle.

Keep escalating to make the point. They have the rest of your non-warranty business to look out for plus the fact that sooner or later, you will need to buy another car.

Sometimes talking to your the sales person that sold you the vehicle will help.

That is not surprising for Ford (I am sure for other dealers also). They once told my friend they would not cover warranty repair it because it was caused by roads and they did not make the roads so are not responsible.

 

[BF]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

Well after 20+ min's on the phone with the "service manager" this afternoon, having a RIDICULOUS conversation, as good as I could get from her was that they'd cover 1/2 the cost of the alignment ($40). By this point, it was worth $40 to me to end this typical (bad, in my experience) example of dealer service. While it's a trivial amount of money, it's galling nonetheless. I would have less of a sour taste in my mouth if she'd just offered to cover 1/2 the cost as an act of good faith and leave it at that.... But, the smoke she was trying to blow up my butt was amazing... she knew enough about front ends to try and make a smoke job, but not enough that I didn't stop her to correct her several times. But she did her job I guess... I got tired of the illogical/pointless discussion and she got me to cough up a few bucks. Bravo. Guess I'll be rushing back there eh?

The only positive thing was that they did manage to get it the alignment done between that conversation at 2:15 and when I wanted to pick it up at 4... but nonetheless I paid $40 that I shouldn't have, so I didn't win any battles today.

Anyway, thanks for the support... that's the update.

 

[penst8grad]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

I used to work at a Chevy garage. Service managers have A LOT of flexibility as to what can be done under warranty. Often times they have to answer to the general manager as GM will question an excessive amount of warranty repairs.

Our service manager (also a friend) told me that within reason he could allow certian things to be done under warranty even though they were outside the warranty window.

Like someone said earlier, they were testing you. Now they know the limit of what you will put up with. Also know that GM probably paid the entire (real) cost of your repair.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

BF, sorry for your trouble, but if it's any consolation, you can use your negotiation skills again when your intake gaskets fail , assuming you have a 3.4L motor. Google for the GM intake gasket problem, you'll see what I mean. I replaced my gaskets at 68,000 myself, the dealer wanted $1,500 bucks. I could write a book on the subject of insufficient heat in these sister vans and the design flaws with the heater system.
I owned Chevy's for over 40 years, but this is the last one I'll EVER own...period.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

Hi y'all....

I've got an '03 Pontiac Montana that's still within the powertrain warranty. Last week it started a howling noise, which I figured is either a CV or front wheel bearing... took it to the dealer and they diagnosed bad bearing, which is covered under the warranty... so far so good, then they break the steering knuckle while removing the bearing cartridge, and when they call me to tell me this, they say they've talked to GM, and they've agreed to replace the knuckle under the same warranty claim because it was broken trying to do approved warranty work... so far so good, right?

My gripe is that they won't do an alignment on it after replacing the steering knuckle... the vehicle had a 4 wheel alignment done when it got new tires about 6 weeks ago. So, I'm PO'd that it looks as if I'll have to pay to have another alignment done to get it back to where it was before the warranty claim...

I'm still waiting for a return call from the service manager, but in the voicemail she left me, she said that alignments are maintenance items and not covered, and that the only way it would be out from replacing the knuckle would be that the toe could be out a bit. (which is my point). !?

Urghhh! This is the double edged sword of having a warranty... you get to deal with the dealerships and their "service managers". But, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting an alignment, am I??

Your probably not unreasonable in "wanting" the alignment. But maybe you are unresonable to expect one for free or reduced rate.

Somewhere in the paperwork that came with your product is specific warranty information. Obviously it states that an alignment isn't covered in your circumstance.

GM isn't known to be very liberal with goodwill adjustments with warranty PNP. Most manufactures have scaled way back on "latitude".
The Service Manager only has as much latitude as she's allowed to have. If the manufacture says "no reimbersement" then she hasn't latitude from the manufacture. If her boss says "I'm not going to eat unreimbersed (kicked back/or debited)warranty claims". She doesn't have lattitude there either.

Since it isn't a covered item the dealership won't get reimbersed by the manufacture for the alignment. Someone therefore will have to eat your alignment. It may be the technician, the service manager or the dealership principal.

That steering knuckle isn't like your fathers Pontiac's steering knucke. And a failure of a bearing pack can cause enough damage to the knuckle to render it unserviceable or to break when making the repair.
These items were covered anyway to your satisfaction.

 

[roscoe]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

""The only positive thing was that they did manage to get it the alignment done between that conversation at 2:15 and when I wanted to pick it up at 4... ""

Well, at least you THINK they did an alignment.

 

[rwise]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

A few years ago a local chevy dealer placed a leter they got from GM in the news papper, it basicly said that dealers should try to NOT do warrenty claims! Shortly after the s10 got broke into and nearly stollen. Well this aint warrenty work but I took it to the dealer to get a quote on fixing it and they said *that needs paint* (had a blister) and went inside, a few minutes later she came back out and said GM had agreed to re-paint it after the damage is fixed (would have been great IF they had done a good job the first time) insurance covered the damage and GM painted it twice for us.
That alignment would have cost the shop what $12-$18 to do the job you ask for and should have been part of the job!
Better Busines Bureau (?SP) you can contact them on-line.
AND I would tell the manager SHE will never work for me again! YOUR FIRED!

 

[BF]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

Well, at least you THINK they did an alignment.

LOL, nice to see someone who thinks like me! The van was still in the rack when I got there, and I had to wait a few minutes for it to be taken down... so I'm pretty sure it was done. It drives perfect (still)... no pull etc... so all appears good. But you're right... just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get me.

About the 3.4 L intake gaskets... yes, I hear ya. I knew about this issue but bought this type of vehicle anyway... so I could get bit by that, we'll see. I know several folks who have had ventures/montana's that have been virtually problem free with pushing 200K km on them. I wouldn't consider a ford minivan, didn't like the seating arrangement in the chrysler, and the price of used import minivans around here is insane. I've had 2 Transsport's previously,with 3.1 and 3.8 L engines, and they were good to me. I considered it a bonus that I am very familiar with the Transsports (did almost all work myself as needed... including bearings, struts etc). The montana doesn't seem much different. Once outside of warranty, I'll likely be doing the wrenchin' on it myself when it needs it.

Skinny... yes an alignment is a maintenance item, but given it had just had one 6 weeks ago, wore new tires, and one whole front side had been monkeyed with (as required by the warranty work), I thought it should be included. Like I said, if the offer to split the cost (which is their tech time) was put to me just as an offer of good faith in a situation where they were sympathetic, but stuck against the immovable warranty company, I wouldn't have a sour taste. I would have just said "OK & thanks". It was the nonsense argument(s) about why an alignment wasn't really needed that became irritating. We got past that, and the manager admitted that yes, it should have an alignment, but in the next breath was adamant that I should be going after the guys who did the alignment 6 weeks ago because they "should have caught this" (?) After a few minutes of conversation where I tried to figure out why she thought someone doing alignment should be able to predict a wheel bearing failure, or that the axle was siezed in the hub... that's when I waved the white flag and didn't want to hear anymore. At that point my only interest was how I could get it done the soonest (which was to have them finish it up).

Anyway, this is really about a trivial amount of cash. I can't imagine the frustration if it was over something that was really a big hit. For $40 I learned about how that shop is managed. (i.e. try and blow smoke and wow you with technical terms) I've replaced bearing cartridges in FWD GM's 3 times myself, so I know what's connected to what, and she was just talking nonsense. But she was able to string together words like "toe" and "camber" in sentences. She did know what "toe" meant, but I don't think she knew what "camber" meant or how it is adjusted. Just that it would "be fine".

anyway, thanks again for your $.02 guys!

 

[tommays]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

My 99 venture went down gasket road TWICE the second only cost me 300 dollars but i had a BIL working for GM to even get that much help


I am currently dealing with the AC driping on the floor on the 03 silverado for TWO years and many visits because they do not want to replace the compleat unit(sealed does not come apart) and take the truck apart to do it correctly



Tommays

 

[PondTunes]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

I've had the same trouble with my 2005 Nissan Titan's warranty. At 950 miles past my 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty my Alternator Died.
The service manager tells me "Nissan is pretty good about stretching the warranty we'll call you later." So off I go to work and about lunchtime my cell rings, it's the service manager telling me that Nissan won't warranty the less than 2 year old alternator but they will put me one on for $500.00. I argued they should cover it under the powertrain warranty because once the battery dies the electronic throttle won't operate so the truck cannot run without it. That failed to work in my favor as well.

I told them I wasn't interested in spending $500.00 on an alternator that they couldn't stand behind for more than 2 years and to pull my truck out I'd fix it myself. Once I arrived there the manager asked if I wanted him to order an alternator, I inquired as to how much this wonderful 2 year old alternator costs and he told me it was about $300.00. I then inquired as to why in the hell they were going to charge me $200.00 to put an alternator in, by this time I was getting upset. I told I would just ride down to advance and pick one up, he then proceeded to warn me that "We have had some trouble out of after-market alternators". I simply replied that it looks like you're having trouble with the factory ones too.

So I go and spend 160.00 on an alternator and invest an hour of my time replacing the alternator. Get everything back together and everything is good again.

3-4 days later I have more charging issues, the battery acts real weak and has trouble turning over the engine. I swing into a Advance and have my battery checked. Their tester shows that my battery is bad, looking at the battery it says very plainly that the battery has an 84 month warranty, so i'm like cool i'll ride down there and pick up another one.

This time I stop in and they inform me that the battery only has a 1 year replacement warranty and it'll be $115.00 to replace it... My argument is that the battery that has NISSAN plastered all over it says it has an 84 month warranty. Now its obvious SOMEONE has to warranty the battery but they can't tell me who, and don't care to explain why. Long story short I left the parking lot this time really pissed.

I even tried another Nissan dealership perhaps it was just this one, ended up with the same run-around and back to advance where I bought a battery that if it dies I know I can get it swapped out.

Other than the warranty issues I really like the truck, plenty of power and tons of room & comfort.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: GM warranty / dealer woes...

Two years ago my company bought my boss and I new vehicles. They got him a 2005 Z71 Silverado with all the gadgets and I got a 2005 Chevy Express van with not much on it.

My van has over 40,000 on it with the original tires, brakes, and no problems else where. The truck has a bit over 45,000 on it with 2 brake jobs, 4th set of tires, squeaky steering column, and a few engine problems. His Chevy truck before this one was virtually the same way and the one before it. Of course they say Chevy is a good vehicle. Maybe so in some models, but I wouldn't buy a Chevy truck for my personal needs. There is many horror stories on their trucks.

His truck wore off the front tires before it hit 9,000 miles. Dealer said it needed an adjustment. Yeah right, I'm sorry that I feel that a truck that new should have never ate the tires off. BTW that is with rotating them where it ate all 4 of them. Even after 3 alignments, the truck is no better than when it was new. I think this is a case where the manufactures specs is either wrong or someone does not know how to get a proper alignment done right.

My experience with GM made trucks is that if you like them then get one. However be prepared for problems, I know lots of guys I have talked to and most have had serious problems with front end alignments. Especially with 4X4's.