Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

[Mark42]

One of the specs available from Toyota in the sales brochure says it can tow up to 3500 lbs. So I was confident that towing with the Sienna would be a pleasant experience, knowing that I should be able to tow my 2000lbs gvw Bayliner trailer and carry the family and gear and be well within the capacity of the vehicle.

But after getting the vehicle, and reading the owners manual, I find a number of restrictions and suggestions that are really bothering me. I am rather dissatisfied at what I found in the 07 Sienna owners manual (bold by me).


1) (pg 424) If towing a trailer and cargo weighing over 907 kg (2000 lbs) it is necessary to use a sway control device with sufficient capacity.

Exactly what is a "sway control device" and why is it needed over 2000 lbs?

2) (pg 425) Toyota recommends removing the trailer hitch whenver you are not towing a trailer to reduce the possibility of additional damage caused by the hitch if your vehicle is struck from behind. After removing the hitch, seal any mounting holes in the fehicle body to prevent entry of pollutants such as exhaust fumes, dirt, water, etc

I first thought they meant to remove the draw bar. But no, they want you to unbolt the whole hitch and plug the holes. This is a joke right? They can't possably be serious. Anyone here remove their hitch when not in use?

3) (pg 427) In order to maintain engine braking efficiency, do not place the transmission in "D". (This is listed under the heading of "Trailer Towing Tips". )

This is the ONLY reference in the entire manual about towing and transmission gear "D" I can find. It seems to suggest that the only reason for not towing in "D" is for engine braking effeciency. It does not mention possable damage to vehicle or drivetrain will occure if towing in "D". Item 4 below seems to support that braking efficiency is the only reason to not use "D".

4) (pg 428) Slow down and downshift before descending steep or long downhill grades. Do not make sudden downshifts.

This seems clear enough. Use the engine braking force to prevent over heating the brakes.

5) (pg 428) Do not exceed 72km/h (45 mph) or the posted towing speed limit, whichever is lower. Because instability (swaying) of a towing vehicle increases as the speed increases, exceeding 72 km/h (45 mph) may cause loss of control.

Is this a general warning about vehicle sway or is the Sienna specifically subject to vehicle sway when towing over 45 mhp?

I am sure that Toyota wants to ensure that their buyers have safe towing experiences, and hence suggest towing at no more than 45mph, and to possably reduce law suits or liability. At least I hope that is why, because towing at 45 mph on the Long Island Expressway (in NY) or Rt 80 in NJ at 45mph will get you run off the road! Plus it will add about another 2 hours to my typical 4 hour trip to the beach.

6) (pg 426) If the total trailer weight exceeds 453 kg (1000 lbs) trailer brakes are required.

This one bothers me. Generally speaking, trailers (boat and camper) do not come with brakes until they reach the 3000 - 3500 lbs range. The majority of States do not require brakes on trailers until they exceede 3000 lbs, although there are a few states in the 1500 lbs range (NE and GA). Adding brakes to a trailer means new axle, hubs, brake drums, bearings, wire harness changes, etc easily costing $600 in parts to do it right. Is this a blanket statement to reduce Toyotas liability or is the braking ability of the Sienna so poor as to warrent brakes on trailers over 1000lbs? It does have 4 wheel disk brakes.

I have towed both my boats with our 97 Mercury Mountianeer (with over 200k miles) and our 98 Lincoln Town Car (with over 140k miles) with no special towing provisions or restrictions, towing in "D" (overdrive) and at speeds of 60mph with no sway and no issues or problems. Neither vehicle has had any transmission problems. So I am rather annoyed that Toyota wants to put restrictions on towing with the Sienna, which should tow at least as well as the Town Car.

Feel free to comment on any or all of these issues.

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Years ago there was issues with cars swaying, and brakes not being adequate, and you couldn't tow at speeds over 50, or if you have a small or economy car,,, You've noticed on your previous fairly late model good sized vehicles, it has not been much of an issue. I would try it just as it is, and see how it does, I think you'll be fine! and I never heard of anyone removing their hitch, when not towing I can't elaborate any more on this right now, as I'm on my way to church, but I'll check back later.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Thanks MikDee,

With a little more searching, I found this in the owners manual regarding the use of "D" (over drive) transmission setting. BTW, the Sienna transmission is a 5 speed with locking converter.

On page 206 (Automatic Transmission sub heading B- Normal Driving) it clearly states:

"When the lever is in the "D" position, the automatic transmission system will select the most suitable gear for running conditions such as normal cruising, hill climbing, hard towing, etc"

So right from Owners Manual, it clearly states that D is the proper selection for "hard towing".

Also, under the section on trailer towing:

(pg 427) In order to maintain engine braking efficiency, do not place the transmission in "D".

This is listed under the heading of "Trailer Towing Tips". Notice that the sole focus of the statement is on maintaining engine braking efficiency. It says nothing about advanced wear or possable failure of the drivetrain due to the use of D when towing.

So, I'm satisfied that towing in overdrive is not against Toyota's published towing directions.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Mark take a look at this. "http://www.ontheball.com/sway_control.htm"

 

[MikDee]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

If you're referring to your 16' Bayliner package to tow, it should be a piece of cake for that Sienna! I'd find it hard to believe the total weight is even 2k lbs?

Anyway, I tow my 89'- 19' Bayliner Capri Ski boat with a 125hp Force, & trailer, behind a 2005 Hyundai Tucson LX 2.7V6 Auto. 4WD, it tows, and stops better, then my 96'- S-10 Ext. Cab Pickup 4.3 Vortec V6 Auto 2WD! but the Tucson has 4:40X1 final gearing with a 4spd Auto & 4WDiscs, as opposed to the S-10 with it's crummy 3:08X1 rear and 4 spd Auto with Front Dics/Rear drums. Plus, I never noticed a sway problem with either vehicles avging 65 on the interstate, with bursts to 75.

When I picked up my sons boat in June, (a bit heavier then mine) from Jersey, I took the S-10, and it worked a bit hard braking, & going over the hills getting home, a week later I was about to take it to NC with the S-10, but tried to get a rented Trailblazer with a hitch first, (no such luck), I decided at last resort, to try the Tucson, and it handled it better all around, so off we went to NC, I drove it like I was carrying eggs, and no sudden moves, with plenty of brake time, & distance, but it surprised me, and handled it quite well, aside from the braking needing extended distance. I towed it, and always tow, with both vehicles in Overdrive, if it needs it, you can feel them downshift automatically, or I ocassionally downshift as I see fit, when I think it needs it, sometimes while braking also.

I tow my boat 20miles each way every wknd to Lake Wallenpaupak, at speeds varing from 40mph to a stretch of road at 65mph, it eats a bit more gas then usual,,, but the Tucson does just fine. Then again, I had my tranny fluid flushed, & replaced, & replaced my brake pads with NAPA premiums, just before I began towing anything but my jetski. By the way, the Tucson has 54K miles on it now, and the S-10 has 109K miles on it. That's why I said try it to see how it does, then evaluate, & add what you need to make the ride stable, & safe, if need be. Good Luck, Mike

P.S. The funniest part is the S-10 While backing up into my slight upgrade driveway, just stops 1/2 way till I go 1/2 way down on the gas, while the Tucson just chugs it right in, hardly any effort atall,,,lol

 

[donnymac]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

I sure like the toyota Sienna. The owners manual seems whacked. I know I'm old fashion but I prefer my tow vehicle to have a frame.

 

[sidechoke67]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

"6) (pg 426) If the total trailer weight exceeds 453 kg (1000 lbs) trailer brakes are required. "

I just got an '08 Sienna and noticed the same thing in the owner's manual. I took that to mean the weight of just the trailer - i.e. no boat. I think I remember the law (in NYS) being worded the same way - something about you need trailer brakes if the trailer weighs more than 1,000 lbs, or if the trailer and cargo weigh more than 3,000 lbs.

Can anyone clarify?

 

[MikDee]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

I know my owners manual says the same thing. It also states the maximum towing capacity for the Tucson is 2000lbs, I tried to keep to that when selecting a boat, but I'm afraid I'm a bit over that.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Go for it. I tow with a 2003 Odyssey and it tows great. I have surge brakes though, so I cannot say how it would tow without them.


Regarding your specific questions, I con only offer some thoughts because our vans are very similar, yet ultimately different (yours is a copy of mine ):

Odyssey says it need a weight distribution hitch for heavier loads -- I wonder if this is what they meant to refer to? I don't use one and have no problems with a boat. I hear the people towing pop ups with these vans do have more issues with sway, than us boat pullers.

I am sure most hitches change the nature of a rear end collision. Too bad, I am not unbolting mine every time. Also, having installed mine myself, I have not worries that its not bolted to a "frame" -- its sure beefy and frame-like where mine bolted on.

Surge brakes would be nice, but at your boat's weight, I think you will be OK.

Lastly, regarding the speed, I two in D3 (versus Honda's overdrive) and maintain a nice 70 MPH with plenty of passing acceleration left. This seems like a over cautious warning. U-hauls say the same thing, but I have never only maintained 45 MPH in them either. My thoughts on the comments about improved breaking is that the tranny likely is designed to downshift more rapidly in the lower gear? However, this is a guess.


Added info: Did you manual not mention needing a extra transmission cooler? If not, I would look into whether Toyota makes a bolt on one, or I would look for an after market one. Keeping the tranny cool is the key. Also, if you are towing, I would accelerate the tranny fluid maintenance interval.

Lastly, not sure about the Sienna folk, but some Odyssey towers advocate adding air springs to the rear coils to keep the rear end from sagging. Again, these seems to be a more common problem for those towing pop ups than with us boat towers. Its not a problem with mine:


http://drri.home.comcast.net/honda/rig_3.jpg

 

[sidechoke67]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

I believe '07 Sienna's came standard with the trailer towing kit (including extra tranny cooler).

I had to have it added at the factory on my '08 Sienna.

 

[jevery]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

I have some experience towing with the Sienna. I have a 06 model and have towed a 2500 lb aluminum fishing boat extensively in the Oklahoma flatlands and the Arkansas Ozark hills. I have found the Sienna's power adequate for most situations. I generally keep it around 65 mph max and usually tow in 4th to prevent constant shifting in and out of OD. I have had some problems with insufficient traction with the front wheel drive, though not on boat ramps, but on steep loose gravel roads. Note - my Sienna has traction control that is supposed to limit slip, though it did not seem to help the one time I got stuck. The aluminum fishing boat did not have trailer brakes and stopping distances were not good. In fact, the lack of brakes was one of the reasons I sold that boat. I recently bought a heavier boat - a 3000 lb (appx) Ranger Reata 1850. It has surge brakes, which helped stopping power immensely, though wiring the fifth connector for the back-up lights was challenging. I would say power is barely adequate for the new boat. Max speed up some of the steeper hills in the Ozarks is about 35 mph having to downshift into second gear at times. One of the biggest challenges with the Sienna has been keeping the vehicle level with tongue weights at the upper limit. I use air bags in the rear springs, which holds the rear up, but without a weight-distributing hitch the front is raised some with uneven weight distribution front to rear. Although I'd say I'm at the upper limit for weight, I'd also say the Sienna meets my needs as 95% of the time we frequent a small lake 10 miles for the house with occasional trips of 2 - 3 hours for the bigger lakes. I frequent Siennaclub.org forums, towing section, which answered many of my questions. My advice is to use air bags, a WD hitch if possible, brakes of some sort, and to keep realistic expectations of your Sienna.

 

[sidechoke67]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

jevery, So, overall, which boat do/did you feel more comfortable towing with the Sienna? The 2,500 lb boat with adequate power and longer stopping distances, or the heavier 3,000 lb boat with surge brakes ?

I will be shopping for a boat in the Spring that I intend to tow with my '08 Sienna, and am debating between targeting a boat+trailer under 2,500 lbs, or going with something closer to 3,000 lbs that comes with trailer brakes.

Thanks!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

I believe '07 Sienna's came standard with the trailer towing kit (including extra tranny cooler).

I had to have it added at the factory on my '08 Sienna.

Yes, the 07 came with larger radiator, larger fans, power steering cooler, larger transmission cooler and 150 amp alternator as part of a towing prep package. I read where that was an option for 08. Not sure how much of it is standard and how much is add on for 08.

BTW, the 07 and 08's have the larger 3.5L engine (rated at 266hp) that Jevery does not have in his 06. Also, I have 4 wheel disks standard with the AWD. The 08 may have 4 wheel disk standard. You should check.

Toyota also specifically lists leaving the gear selector in the "D" location even when doing "Heavy Towing" as they want the transmission to select the proper gear for the condition. They also say to manually choose 4 and 3 to use engine braking.

Regarding the air springs, if I find the Sienna sagging in the rear, I will add them. Seems that most owners on the siennaclub.org that tow use them and the air bags by AirLift are less than $100.

 

[rheyboer]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Mark42:

You got major miles and great towing from the Merc and Lincoln and switch to a toy auto?

 

[jevery]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Sidechoke,
I feel more confident with the newer boat mainly because of the improved stopping power. I'd recommend brakes on anything over 2000 lbs. If your buying a new boat, brakes can usually be added as an option (if not standard equipment on the boat). The power is really not an issue as long grades or steep hills are few in my area, and as Mark42 pointed out, the newer Siennas have a little more umph. Something I have noted with the larger boat is that the parking brake will no longer hold by itself on steeper boat ramps (rear disk brakes), I now have to rely on the transmission pin to some extent (which makes me nervous). I tightened the parking brakes up some - we'll see if they hold next time out.

Mark42
Unless you'll be using a WD hitch, you'll need the air bags. The Sienna just won't handle much additional weight aft of the rear axle, due primarily to the class 3 hitch mounting so low. Even with the air bags you have to be careful how you approach aprons and transitions with a hump. Dragging the hitch, however, doesn't really hurt anything but the paint on the underside.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Questions about towing with an 07 Toyota Sienna

Mark42:

You got major miles and great towing from the Merc and Lincoln and switch to a toy auto?

Actually, I decided to keep the Merc Mountaineer. The reason we bought the Sienna was my wife didn't want another SUV, she wanted something lower and more car like that can seat 7 adults comfortably. The Sienna has 7 full size adult seating. She also wanted AWD, and the Sienna is the only mini van with AWD. So, by process of elimination, we end up with Sienna being the only vehicle that met our needs. Lucky for us its a top rated mini-van. Depending on who did the reviews, either the Honda or the Toyota are top.

Actually, I am impressed with the handling, and excelleration. 266hp makes that van fly, even with AWD.

Regarding the sagging rear, from what I read on Siennaclub.com the folks complaining about low rear and using air springs tow campers. Campers have a much higher tongue weight than a boat trailers. Campers often have dual LP tanks up front, a 60/40 weight distribution over the axle, and an extra cargo box on the tongue. So 300 lbs tongue weight is not unusual even for a small camper. My boat trailers typically have around 80 - 100 lbs tongue weight, depending on how much gear I load into them, how much gas (usually full), etc. Some folks think 100 lbs is light, but it is still in the 3 - 5% range which is good for small boats like mine.

If the rear saggs, I have no problem adding air bag helpers.