Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

[jpc0706]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 1989 Wellcraft GranSport 34? . The boat was out of the water and not running. It has the Borg Warner 72C Velvet Drives (1.51:1 ratio) with the V drive gear case. From what I can tell the engines are standard and reverse rotation and the V drives both act the same, leading me to believe the V drive gear case isn?t doing any reverse rotating with a gear or anything like that (they must both be chain driven). I am looking to repower with 2 standard rotating engines and am wondering what I need to do to the transmissions/gear cases to allow this to happen. If anyone can help that would be so great.
Thanks,
Jody

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

V-drives are gear to gear.

Install opposite rotating engines. Opposite output is available but I think converting to a opposite rotation engine would be the cheaper (and best) way to go.

 

[QC]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

V-drives are gear to gear

Why can't he run an opposite rotating marine gear though . . .

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Why can't he run an opposite rotating marine gear though . . .

He can, my "gear to gear" comment was addressing his "chain driven" remark.

Reversed output is available from Borg Warner.

But the way he sits now the only thing he needs for an right hand rotation engine is a camshaft, circulation pump and the correct seals (if seals are an issue). All the rest of the parts are there (assumption).

Going to 2 left hand rotation engines involves the cost of the gear (not cheap) plus some minor plumbing changes.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

i have twin ford 351's and velvet drive borg warner and v drive units in my 1977 trojan 28' cruiser . my trannys are both identical in direction and my port engine spins backwards. i would honestly rather have both engines the same and use a reverse direction tranny, but i spose this works just fine. ive had no problems whatsoever.

hope this helps.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

finding right hand rotation cams,distributers and such is getting harder and harder.
moderen stuff simply flips the pump,velvet drive, or simply reverses the shift linkage at the controls,ZF and hurth are an example.
as the 351 ford hasnt been offered in some 10 years or so finding parts for them is even tougher.
PCM does marinize a 5.7 GM with the mounts to direct replace the older PCM ford engines.
PCM also makes a clutch that looks very similar to the 71 series BW.
most of the walter or BW V drives dont care which direction they turn, the clutch does.
however most BW clutches can be converted left or right hand by flipping the pump180 degrees, infact its cast on the pump itself.
I normally dont reccomend aftermarket manuals however clymer makes a very nice one that covers Borgwarner gears and V drives.
most fun thing about a V drive is shaft alignment

 

[Don S]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Here is a place you can download a Borg Warner manual for the Vdrive and the tranny's.

http://www.motoren.ath.cx/menus/velvet.html

 

[jpc0706]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Thanks for the replies. Here's what I found, the port side engine is reverse rotation. I want to put a standard rotation engine in it's place and think the transmission and v drive gear will need modification. From what I understand the direction on the input side of the transmission can be configured for either RH or LH by messing with the pump but to actually change directions of the output of the transmission or the gear case, gears will need to be changed. Do you know of anyone who can help me figure out exactly what needs to be done?

Thanks!
Jody

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

You need to change out the V-drive section.

I took a look at the service manual and I stand corrected on the chain drive issue, apparently BW uses a chain drive or direct gear contact to change the output direction in the V drive section.

Never overhauled them, just replaced the entire assembly. :redface:

 

[jpc0706]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Thanks again. Yes, I found out that the gear driven V Drives rotate in the same direction as the engine and the chain drive unit operates in reverse of the engine. Any idea where I can find a chain driven Borg Warner V drive?

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Don't know offhand.

Find a bone yard, call local marine services, boatyards, search internet.

Be sure to change your plumbing at the raw water pump and use a left hand circulation pump.

 

[jpc0706]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Thanks for your help! I'm going to do some looing around. If anyone knows of where I can find a good used Chain driven Borg Warner V drive, please call me 770-856-2277.

Thanks!

 

[wire2]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Thanks again. Yes, I found out that the gear driven V Drives rotate in the same direction as the engine and the chain drive unit operates in reverse of the engine. Any idea where I can find a chain driven Borg Warner V drive?

Other way around?
Engine to gear V drive input is cw, V drive output will be ccw.
Chain will both be cw.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Other way around?
Engine to gear V drive input is cw, V drive output will be ccw.
Chain will both be cw.

Yep,

Port engine should be a chain driven. 1 direction change

Starboard should be gear driven. 2 direction changes

rotates the inboard side of the props towards the hull.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

Yep,

Port engine should be a chain driven. 1 direction change

Starboard should be gear driven. 2 direction changes

rotates the inboard side of the props towards the hull.

View is from the V drive end of propulsion unit.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

most V drives using a 71 or 72 series clucth you flip the pump, info is cast on the front of the clutch, and change the control from push to pull or vice versa.
its not hard at all.
thats why most marinizers quit using right hand rotation engines.
the expense of the engine wasnt worth it.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

most V drives using a 71 or 72 series clucth you flip the pump, info is cast on the front of the clutch, and change the control from push to pull or vice versa.
its not hard at all.
thats why most marinizers quit using right hand rotation engines.
the expense of the engine wasnt worth it.

This does not change the direction of rotation of the output shaft in relation to the engine. See the address below, page 2 under Velvet

motoren.ath.cx/

 

[tommays]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

"http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6mxo8/downloads/Velvet_Drive_Inst_Manual.pdf"

This manual makes it pretty clear



Tommays

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

jcf350
it does change the output.
its how almost all marinizers for the past 10-15 years have done it.
most hurth and BW clutches really dont care which way the output shft turns for fwd thrust.
on the ZF style stuff you simply flip the control box from push to pull. on most the 71-72 series BW stuff you have to flip the oil pump and the control cable.
and thats how you have two standard left hand engines with counter rotating shafts.
thats why its harder and harder to find right hand camshafts,distributers and starters.
its not economically feasible for such a small market.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Borg Warner Velvet V Drive Reverse Rotation

jcf350
it does change the output.
its how almost all marinizers for the past 10-15 years have done it.
most hurth and BW clutches really dont care which way the output shft turns for fwd thrust.
on the ZF style stuff you simply flip the control box from push to pull. on most the 71-72 series BW stuff you have to flip the oil pump and the control cable.
and thats how you have two standard left hand engines with counter rotating shafts.
thats why its harder and harder to find right hand camshafts,distributers and starters.
its not economically feasible for such a small market.

Rotating the pump allows the pump to pump, the trans output is still the same as the engine rotation (except for the models that counter rotate).

BW says DO NOT! use reverse gear for continuous use (which what you will be doing if you change the shift cable), The planetary gear and shell (used for reverse) are not designed for what you are describing.

The proper way to do this is described in the service manual.