2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

[jmontie]

I recently bought a boat with the above mentioned motor. It runs ok when it's first put in the water. Fish for a while and go to crank it up, it starts ok. Put in gear and try to get on plane it dies. It will do this over and over. I've taken it to a mechanic and he said he checked the fuel system and there where no leaks. He replace the VRO (not very cheap). I took it out and it did it again. I took it back to him he replace the pump bulb and hose from the bulb to the motor. He said he adjusted the carberator. I took it out and it is still doing it.

Also when it won't run the bulb will not get hard. You can pump it all you won't.

I have learned from trial and error, that if you let it idle for a while 2 to 5 minutes it will run fine.

The mechanic has a good reputation in the area.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

i dont want to be a wise a.. , i would seriously doubt why he replaced the "VRO" pump in the first place.

so if i understand it correctly the motor starts fine but as soon as you put it in gear and give it gas it bogs down and dies?

how is the compression?

 

[jmontie]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

He did check the compression. He said the compression was good. As far as the VRO, he made it sound like that was the next logical step. Now when I did bring it back to him, he said he put the old VRO back on it, but it wouldn't idle.

I did talk to another mechanic and he said he would have put a mechanical fuel pump in and mixed the gas/oil. He told me it would have been cheaper and more reliable.

I think it is losing it's prime, but I don't know where. Also if it was losing it's prime, pumping the bulb should prime it.

Now I did notice if I flip the manual choke, gas would run out the lower carb inlets. Once closed I could pump the bulb and I would get a hard bulb once but it would go away. The machanic said the gas running out the lower carbs was because the motor was tilted.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

first tings first.

when you pump the bulp its should get hard as soon as the system is filled up with fuel. Period.
the floats wil close the needle and stop the fuel.

if you can sqeeze the primer bulp fuel wil start leaking out the carbs trought because the needle didnt close the fuel inlet in that carb.

possibility is that after you run the motor and let it sit for a while the fuel is leaking back into the fuel system beacause of a bad check valve and an air leak.

i would ask your mechanic if he checked the fuel system for vacuum and presure. iots asimple test and wil tel you if it is indeed a fuel related problem.

when you run the motor your primer bulp wil get soft thats a good thing. because the needles in the carbs open up and let fuel trough.

if the pressure and vacuum test are good then i would look into the ignition.
check for spark when it happens.
you might be having a bad pack bud thats to premature to say.

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

This stumps a lot of people....i do believe that either your fuel tank isn't vented or the vent is clogged....boats have vented tanks..if it isn't and you PULL fuel from it...after a little while you get a VACUUM and the fuel pump can't pull fuel...and the bulb can't inflate correctly....check the vent(or the vacuum @ filter)

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

You said:​

"I have learned from trial and error, that if you let it idle for a while 2 to 5 minutes it will run fine."​

If so, the problem is unlikely to be confined to the fuel system.​

Get a good timing light and metallic marker, and check your spark when the problem arises.​

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Two to five minutes of idle speed isn't going to remove enough gas from tank fast enough to cause vacuum lock in tank....also overnight or any length of time will alow enough air to enter tank arount cap,fittings,etc. for problem to "vanish"....

 

[jmontie]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Reeldutch,
I don't think it is the ignition. It has to be in the fuel system, the reason I say that is the bulb will not get hard after the initial run.

yamamarinetech40,
I don't think it is the is the tank vent. The last time it did this I opened the tank filler cap and it didn't have a suction. Also the bulb still wouldn't get hard. The bulb does inflate correctly.

ezeke,
As I said above, I don't think it is an ignition problem.

yamamarinetech40,
The 2 to 5 minutes of idling is when the bulb won't get hard and it dies. I let it idle that long and then it will run. I will usually get a little high speed miss at first, but it goes away.

I appreciate all the responses. I have taken it back to the machanic, he wasn't happy to see me. He said he didn't know what else it could be. So now he is going to clean the carbs. I hope it is a needle valve not seating. After that I guess I will have to look for another mechanic.

By the way, I did talk to another mechanic. He said he wouldn't have put another VRO on. He recommended a mechnical fuel pump. He said it would have been cheaper and the VRO's going bad is what burns up most engines.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

You don't have a VRO on your motor anyway, they stopped installing/using them in the 1990's on new motors.

It is easy to revert to a conventional lift pump. The pump and parts are all in the BRP parts catalog for the 2006 90HP V4 motor on the BRP web site.

The lift pump is not as good as the pump you have and you can premix the fuel on that pump if you want.

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

They stopped using the original in the 90's and went to a much, much improved pump, still VRO in 2001 for sure.....I would at this point connect an inline vacuum gauge(15 bucks, autoparts store) at engine fuel filter, run it until the event takes place and see if the vac. doesn't go above 2.5" idling or 5"-6" WOT....if it does either of these, she can't run....I use clear vinyl hose to connect so I can see if bubbles appear....you need to eliminate boat(even seen trash left in tank for years finally get to fuel pickup...he should have checked vacuum in first hour of your $$$

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Perhaps it is just semantics, but the VRO2 is 1992 and after that you will not find "VRO PUMP or VRO2" listed in any parts manual for any model after 1993.

Since 1993 it is called an OMS or oil metering system. The fuel/oil ratio is supposed to average about 60:1

 

[richoj]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Don't know if this will help---and it's overly simple, but here goes----After I bought a new (leftover) 1998 carbbed 175 Evinrude, I tested it in the driveway with a remote tank filled with gas that I used to test the motor I traded in.

It ran fine at idle and at low speed---but as soon as I put power to it, it would shut down. I tried everything I knew to solve the problem---including cleaning the internal, conical shapped filter, but nothing worked. It was still under warranty, so I had an OMC shop work on it----they simply replaced the conical filter, and it's been running fine ever since.

Apparently, I either picked up some fine junk by using the remote tank, or it came that way from yhe factory. Those filters are so fine that small stuff is hard to see with the naked eye.

Sometimes, we need to look for the easy stuff first----good luck.

 

[jmontie]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Well, I've not had any luck so far. I've spent over $800. They've replaced the VRO (that's what the mechanic called it). He's replaced the bulb, and fuel line. He's rebuilt all four carbs. Then after taking my money and time, he told be to take it to the dealer. I've brought it to another mechanic. It's sat outside for 3 weeks.

If anybody knows of a reputable mechanic in the Lake Charles, Louisiana area please let me know.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Get a vacuum gauge and hook it inline on the fuel hose before the engine, along with a clear section of hose. Take it for a spin, noting the readings and monitor the fuel flow through the clear hose.

Findings:

-Vacuum of less than 2 inches and air bubbles in the clear hose indicates an air leak into the fuel system
-No air bubbles and less than 2 inches indicates a bad fuel pump
-Vacuum over 4 inches indicates a restriction.

Sample gauge

"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBTOX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=4610113711&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI"

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

...It runs ok when it's first put in the water. Fish for a while and go to crank it up, it starts ok. Put in gear and try to get on plane it dies. It will do this over and over. ...

I have learned from trial and error, that if you let it idle for a while 2 to 5 minutes it will run fine.

You are describing the classic symptoms of heat soak. When the motor is shut
off, the residual engine heat increases under the motor cover to as high as
200?F according to factory tests. The gasoline in the carbs and vapor
separator tank "boil" away as the motor sits and heat is transferred from
the hot cylinder block to the carburetors and fuel system.

When you restart the motor, it is actually running on the heavy vapor fumes
and not on liquid gasoline. As fresh gas is pumped into the motor, the
temperatures of the carburetor bodies "flash off" some of the fuel, making
more vapors until they cool down with air flow. The engine may idle, but
will not develop any power on acceleration.

Squeeze the primer ball before starting and let the motor idle for several
minutes before taking off. This allows the venturi effect of the carburetors
to cool the float bowls and the intake manifolds to the point where they
operate normally. Also the lower temperature gasoline from the fuel tank
being pumped into the motor helps to cool things down.

The 60? engines, 90-175 hp, are more prone to heatsoak due to their compact
design and the use of plastic manifolds and carburetors. They retain heat
longer than the equivalent aluminum parts used in other engine models.

Alcohol and various fuel additives promote heat soak due to their lower
boiling point. Winter blend fuels have more volatility to aid in cold
weather starting and can also aggravate the problem. With the new 10%
alcohol gasolines heat soak problems in all types of motors will increase,
especially in hot weather.

You can minimize the problem by making sure your motor is in a good state of
tune, using Champion QL78YC plugs gapped to .030", and adjusting the
relationship between spark advance and throttle opening (sync & link) to
occur at the exact same time, and perhaps richen up the idle screws by an
additional 1/2 to 1 turn out. With these suggestions and letting the motor
idle for a while after restarting, you should be in good shape.

 

[jmontie]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Well, over two months later and three machinics later I think the problem is fixed. It seems it was a combination of things. The VRO (fuel/oil vacuumn pump) and a float that was not seating. So now it looks like my boat is ok.

Now I want to disconnect my oil injection. Any advise, I'd like to do this myself.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 2006 Johnson 115 fuel problem

Check the FAQ for the instructions