Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

[brokemerc]

To recap--1995 bayliner capri 1854, 3.0 alpha 1 Gen 2, engine just installed from a 1989 searay, only searay parts used are the starter, wiring harness and breaker point ignition system. I knew I had some electrical gremlins because when I hooked up the battery the lights on the gauges came on and the gas and volt gauge worked. I could also trim the drive with the key off. Well I got it started today and when I went to shut if off the key had no effect, i ended up pulling the coil wire to kill it. It's like the switch is always in the run position, the key works fine to start it but that's it. This boat is new to me so I have no history on this. Any thoughts??? I'm no electrical troubleshooter and will never claim to be one... Thanks..

 

[Bondo]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Do you have a Multimeter,..?? Test Light,..??

I Agree it sounds like the Switch is always On,.....

It's going to take 1 of the instruments noted above,...
And,....
A reasonable understanding of the basic 12V circuit,.... To diagnose the issue......

I think the 1st place I'd look is the Cannon Plug, to make sure there were No changes between 89,+ 95........

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yea that plug was a subject of conversation months ago.. There is a difference but as I remember it the plug that came out of the bayliner had a pin hole with nothing in it and the searay plug had a wire attatched to it (or visa-versa). I suppose I could always just put the original wiring harness on it, if I did that i'd just go ahead and swap out the distributor also.. I'm just still overwhelmed that it runs..

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yes I have meters and everything to troubleshoot (well my son does,, I'll make him do the electrical)..

 

[Bondo]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

I'm just still overwhelmed that it runs..

Ayuh,.........

 

[tommays]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

I will WAG a bit

The trim system is NOT controled buy the key switch


If the Alternator has a bad diode it will pass power to the ignition system with the key in off position


did you leave the orginal wiring on the 1989 motor ?



Tommays

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yes the searay engine I installed kept its wiring harness. (one of those plug and pray projects)

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Re: Eigine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Well if you put a simple 12 v test light to the "Plus" terminal of your coil (with the black/ground test lead clipped to ground) and the light lights with the key-OFF, there's no mystery there. Then you can just trace the actual wire to where it's connected and determine why it's powered all the time.

You have something wired in such a way that allows 12v power to get to the coil. It may or may not be in the switch. (although the switch could be "shorted" internally....it's unlikely) The ignition switch is actually 2 switches in 1 container.

In your ignition switch, 12v power is connected to 1 terminal, then the first position turns on the ignition terminal, the second (spring loaded, momentary) position connects power to the start terminal (which in turn powers the starter solenoid)

If your ignition wire (from the coil to the switch) is connected to anything else that's powered all the time you wouldn't be able to turn it off with the key.


Mercruiser has a VERY specific color code for ignition, starter, and other connections. Those colors are somewhat standardized across manufacturers.

The starter solenoid power is usually yellow with red stripe and ignition is usually purple (at least it was on my OMC and Mercruiser)

In the newer boats the starter wire(usually yellow/red stripe) will go to the throttle/shift controls for start-in-gear protection. If there's a "Kill" lanyard then the ignition (purple ) wire goes thru that switch before continuing to the ignition terminal of the ignition switch

If someone ran out of wire connecting it all up they may have used other colors from the throttle quadrant to the ignition switch (or bypassed safety switches altogether)

Start at the coil (+ lead) with a test light. Find the color of the wire and physically trace it back to the ignition switch. You'll probably have to remove electrical tape on the harness to positively identify each wire as it goes up the side of the boat. I think you'll find that it's connected somewhere it shouldn't be.

While you're doing this have the alt disconnected to isolate it from the circuit...


I think someone already said it....The trim system operates independently of the ignition switch (or should be separate)


Cheers,

Rick

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Wow lots of info,, thanks.. Yea one other thing that I remember is there is an off/run switch by the throttle which doesn't seem to work, will allow the engine to run in either position. I'll break out a meter tomorrow,, if I were to guess i'd say the battery isn't being charged from the alt.. either, brand new battery and after running the boat for half an hour it had a hard time turning the engine over.

 

[tommays]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13E4R2.PDF



NOT the exact manual BUT Page 5 shows the points wiring and 6 and 7 show DDIS and EST


The purple(5) resistance wire is common from the choke and Alt



Tommays

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Look at your starter and make sure the main battery cable is not hitting the outer small terminal. That would put power to the coil anytime the battery switch was turned on.

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

It's fixed and everything works.. Kind of glad I invested in my sons future as he bailed me out on this one. Come to find out I had a purple wire (painted black) on my alternator hooked to the wrong terminal,,, and I had one of my many battery terminals (black) which should have been Red hooked to the negative not positive, which put a draw on the battery thus the problem cranking.. Key, lights, all switches work great.... Pretty sad I can't think of any threads to start,,,, may have to change my log in name now..... Thanks..

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

I can't think of any threads to start,,,, may have to change my log in name now

Don't get all puffed up because it works in your driveway, you haven't put it in the water yet. Plenty of things can still go wrong.

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yea had a hard time putting my shirt on this morning,, getting it over my head that is... I was going to pull the drive (due to that reservoir fluid leak post awhile back) but instead I may drop it in the water and run it first. That way i'll know if I have any bellows leaks ect.. Registration should show up today..

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

I was going to pull the drive (due to that reservoir fluid leak post awhile back) but instead I may drop it in the water and run it first.

Woa now, you mean you put in a different engine and you NEVER removed the drive????
You shouldn't have even run it???
Go pull the drive and check the alignment. Hopefully you didn't damage the coupler installing that engine with the drive on. There is no way the alignment could be right.

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

NOOOO,, remember the trouble I had with my alignment tool, even bent one.. I had the drive off when I swapped the engines and aligned it when I reinstalled it. Problem was I mistakenly tried to service the drive through the reservoir and the oil ended up on the floor. I think there was a seal that I forgot to replace when I did the impeller change. I would really like to run it on the water to make sure none of the bellows are leaking prior to pulling the drive again.. What do ya think,, not so good of an idea??

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

I don't try to recall all the posts, but I do remember the pry bar, I mean alignment bar thread, just forgot who posted it.

Fix it first. If you forgot a seal, you could very quickly loose all your gear lube in the upper when it starts warming up and run it dry. That would destroy the gears and bearings. The reservoir will not refill the drive that fast, especially if the drive is hot and slightly pressurized.
Read my signature line.

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yep I figured as much,, I may drop the drive off tonight. I seem to remember someone saying something about an oil seal/o-ring next to the water pump line.. I'm just going to go through the drive just to make sure,, I had a couple of seals in the kit that I couldn't figure out where they went to. I'm hoping I can somehow follow the path of the oil from the reservoir down to the lower unit and find the bad o ring.. We'll see.. Thanks. (yea I think you refered to me as the "Tool Butcher") Hey do you think I can just drop the lower unit off??

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Item #6 is the quad ring that goes into the oil port between the drives. Has cost many people a new drive when they didn't install it while changing the impeller. B is an adhesive to hold it in place.
Yes, you can just drop the lower. But I think it's harder to do that way.

 

[brokemerc]

Re: Engine runs with key off, switch bad or worse??

Yup,, I don't remember changing that one when I had it apart. I'll just pull the whole drive, I really want to take my time (now that I know the engine runs) and ensure the alignment is 100% correct.. AMAZING how I can find the time the second time around to do it right.. i know-i know...