Electrical Problem Need Help!

[Bellina]

I have a 17.5 G3 Tunnel Hull with 70 Yamaha 2-Stroke. I installed (trying to) two interior lights. I connected the following on each of the two lights:
1-Both negative grounds to the main circuit panel main ground and then from the main ground back to a 3 position switch (new).
2- Both positive wires (connected together) and then to the positive side of the main circuit panel (the 3-position swith is fused).
The lights came on for a few seconds, then off. Now I have no power out of the circuit panel for anything including the engine. I have checked all fuses on the panel and the motor and still nothing. (after disconnecting the new switch and both new lights). Do you think the circuit panel is "blown or fried". There is power to the main panel, no fuses are blown. When turning on master power switch, nothing! Starter will not turn over either. Help! Thanks in advance.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

Recheck your grounds. What is the new switch in the ground circuit for?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

I will make an assumption here and thats that you really have a three POSITION switch (ON-OFF-ON) and not a three TERMINAL switch. And one more assumption is that this is not a lighted switch. If you used a three position switch I can't begin to tell you what you did wrong as I can't see your switch and it is necessary that you pick the right terminals when you wire things up. All of that matters. Why did you run the grounds back to the panel AND the THREE position switch? You don't need a three position switch and you NEVER put a switch in a ground lead (except in some engine related controls or electronics where circuits use a switched ground). Your wiring should run like water through a hose. You run a +12V line from the fuse panel to one terminal on a two position (On-Off) switch. The other terminal feeds the positive line to each of the courtesty lights. The ground leads from each of the lights connects to the ground buss at the panel. Your done. If the engine doesn't start, you blew the main fuse at the engine. It is usually in a holder with the word FUSE on it.

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

First thing that I would check is the fuses with a multimeter. I have had fuses fail without being visually gone. If you are not familiar with what you are looking for ask, I deal with electonics for a living and will be more than happy to explain it. If the fuses are good and power is getting to the main panel and you are not getting any out then the panel is fried. Can you visually inspect the busses in the main panel. The busses are usually a bar with power pick offs attached. If you can look for a section that is melted on either bar. Also do a visual inspection of all wires and contacts inside the panel. Your stated wiring is a little vague, but it sounds like you may have shorted the pos and neg buss bars together, but the wiring to the lights should have failed first. I am thinking that there is a main fuse somewhere that is blown. It may require some digging to find it. Could you be a little more clear about how you wired it. Make it connection by connection, don't string them together.

Example,
1.) Main panel + bus to Fuse.
2.) Fuse to 3 position sw. pin 1.
3.) 3 position sw. pin 2 to red wire on both lamps.
4.) black wire on both lamps to Main panel - bus.

List them step by step and it will make it more clear. One of the things that I was taught when I was learning my job is that the best way to troubleshoot electrical/electronic systems is to break it in pieces and look for known good signals. In the example above first thing that I would do after checking fuses is break the system in roughly half. So the first place that I would look would be for power into and out of the sw. If you are getting power into the sw, but not out of the sw then you replace the switch. If you are not getting power to the switch then you check for power going into and coming out of the fuse. If you have power going into but not out of the fuse then you replace the fuse. If you have power coming out of the fuse then you replace the wire running from the fuse to the switch. Does this make sense? Basically you keep cutting the circuit in half until you find the problem. This works with all types of circuits besides electrical. I used it once to diagnose a clogged muffler on my truck. I don't understand why you used a 3 position sw. Are the lamps that you are hooking up capable of both white and red light? If so that will change things a little, but not much. The more specific the details that you can give us and maybe a pic or two the better that we can help you. Let us know and we will try to help you. It is not rocket science, just tedious. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[Bellina]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

JM: I really do appreciate your thourough reply. Great to know there are people out there to help folks! I will send you a pic of the lights and switch and go from there. I just connected power and flipped on the master sw, everything works minus the two new lights that I disconnected. Is it possible that I have a fuse that "cools" and reconnects??? Nothing else changed. I will send pics and more exact info before I try to connect these two lights again. Again, your help is much appreciated.

 

[Bellina]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

Silvertip: See my reply to JM Ruth. You guys are great, with your information and JM's I have no doubt I will get there. Thank You, will be getting back with more detailed info.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

JM: I really do appreciate your thourough reply. Great to know there are people out there to help folks! I will send you a pic of the lights and switch and go from there. I just connected power and flipped on the master sw, everything works minus the two new lights that I disconnected. Is it possible that I have a fuse that "cools" and reconnects??? Nothing else changed. I will send pics and more exact info before I try to connect these two lights again. Again, your help is much appreciated.

You could have an auto-reset circuit breaker installed.

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

bhile, I was trying to remember what those were called as we don't deal with them to my knowledge in the Navy. I have however heard of them and that is exactly what I was thinking that he had when he said that power was back online.

bellina, first thing that we need to know is exactly what type of switch you have. second what lights do you have. if you include manufacturer and part number of each we can probably look up the specs and wiring info online and that would let us give you a step by step wiring setup. there is a BIG difference between a three position switch and a switch with three terminals. you would probably not believe the number of configurations on just switches out there. if you still have the package for the switch there should be series of four letters on it somewhere similar to this DPDT. if you can not find a exact part number or that series of letters then tell me exactly how many terminals and number of places that the switch moves to such as up-middle-down. as for the light how many wires are coming out of it or how many terminals does it have. with this information I can figure out what you have and give you and exact step by step setup. like I said earlier it is not hard, just tedious. however absolutely do not reconnect anything with those lights until you are 100% sure that you do not have a short or you could end up doing damage. you got lucky this time might not happen again. I would also recommend a 100% systems check under load if possible to make sure that everything does in fact work like it is supposed to and I would work it for a while. I have seen short duration shorts do damage that was not immediately evident. it showed up several hours later as it only weakened the component and didn't just destroy it. also keep in mind that even 12vdc can kill you. it is not the volts that get you it is the amps and the battery has more than enough of those. when testing hot ( power applied ) circuits do not use both hands if it can be avoided and never put your fingers directly on the metal part of the test probes. there is usualy a little rubber flat ring sticking out of the probe a little back from the pins. keep your fingers behind it and you will be fine. there are quite a few safety tricks, but they would take a couple of hours to write them all in here. I have covered the most basic ones and they are more than enough at this power level. I have had to use a lot higher lever of safety as I have dealt with as much as -20kv DC. Now this is truly hazardous stuff. not meant to scare, just keep you safe. use your head, keep your fingers clear, don't short the probes and you should be fine. I would also not wear any dangling jewelery. let us know what you find as you get the chance.

 

[Bellina]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

JM: I found the problem. It was the switch I was using (the one with too many variations). I used a simple push pull switch, checked my grounds and now everything works fine, including the two new lights. I again very much appreciate your detailed help (I learned some stuff) and would very much like to take an electronics class from you as the instructor! Thanks again!

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: Electrical Problem Need Help!

Bellina, Glad that it works. Just curious though. Did you find out if the light that you installed were just white or white/red combos? Did you find out what the description of the swith was (ie DPDT)? There still might be a better way to wire it if you can give more details. Of course what it all boils down to is does it work? and are you happy with the install? Electricity is really not hard once you understand some of the basics. Electronics can get really complicated, but again once you have a solid understanding of somethings you can troubleshoot most anything. Talk to you later and have a good day.