Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

[waterinthefuel]

Now that I am a HAM radio operator I don't need it as HAMs have access to repeaters that can extend even a handheld radio's range over hundreds of miles, but I REALLY considered putting a marine VHF in my truck and one at the house with an antenna on the roof so I could talk back to the house from anywhere in the city. I was wondering if anyone else has considered it for on-shore communications. I've read some of the FAA rules and I haven't seen where it MUST be in a boat, after all they allow it in a house as its allowed as an on-shore station for ship-to-shore communications.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

Well you better reread the FCC rules for Marine VHF because neither station can be on land with out a special permit. Yes the Coast Guard has land stations and marina have a permit on file. Also some Party Boat base stations. Bridges and Vesssel Traffic Service and Sea Tow service. You might also note that each channel has a specific use for Vessels.

If you are a boater and a Ham I would think that you would understand that VHF Marine is not a CB. It for the saftey of boats at sea who may need help. Chit chat is also NOT Allowed on VHF Marine band by rule. People do it but it only for comm related to the saftey and navigation of the vessel.

If you are a Ham why not just use 70 watts on your 2 meter base station and mobile. It is legal and what HAM radio is used for. Or set up your own repeater on the 440 band. VHF Marine is limited to 25 watts. The VHF HAM band you can use way more power and not endanger someone life because the wife wants you to bring home a loaf of bread.
They is not even a code requirement for 2 Meters and the 440/ 70 cm band anymore.
Get a Cell phone and leave VHF Marine for the saftey of Vessel on the Water.



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U.S. VHF CHANNELS

Channel Number Ship Transmit MHz Ship Receive MHz Use
01A 156.050 156.050 Port Operations and Commercial, VTS. Available only in New Orleans / Lower Mississippi area.
05A 156.250 156.250 Port Operations or VTS in the Houston, New Orleans and Seattle areas.
06 156.300 156.300 Intership Safety
07A 156.350 156.350 Commercial
08 156.400 156.400 Commercial (Intership only)
09 156.450 156.450 Boater Calling. Commercial and Non-Commercial.
10 156.500 156.500 Commercial
11 156.550 156.550 Commercial. VTS in selected areas.
12 156.600 156.600 Port Operations. VTS in selected areas.
13 156.650 156.650 Intership Navigation Safety (Bridge-to-bridge). Ships >20m length maintain a listening watch on this channel in US waters.
14 156.700 156.700 Port Operations. VTS in selected areas.
15 -- 156.750 Environmental (Receive only). Used by Class C EPIRBs.
16 156.800 156.800 International Distress, Safety and Calling. Ships required to carry radio, USCG, and most coast stations maintain a listening watch on this channel.
17 156.850 156.850 State Control
18A 156.900 156.900 Commercial
19A 156.950 156.950 Commercial
20 157.000 161.600 Port Operations (duplex)
20A 157.000 157.000 Port Operations
21A 157.050 157.050 U.S. Coast Guard only
22A 157.100 157.100 Coast Guard Liaison and Maritime Safety Information Broadcasts. Broadcasts announced on channel 16.
23A 157.150 157.150 U.S. Coast Guard only
24 157.200 161.800 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
25 157.250 161.850 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
26 157.300 161.900 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
27 157.350 161.950 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
28 157.400 162.000 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
63A 156.175 156.175 Port Operations and Commercial, VTS. Available only in New Orleans / Lower Mississippi area.
65A 156.275 156.275 Port Operations
66A 156.325 156.325 Port Operations
67 156.375 156.375 Commercial. Used for Bridge-to-bridge communications in lower Mississippi River. Intership only.
68 156.425 156.425 Non-Commercial
69 156.475 156.475 Non-Commercial
70 156.525 156.525 Digital Selective Calling (voice communications not allowed)
71 156.575 156.575 Non-Commercial
72 156.625 156.625 Non-Commercial (Intership only)
73 156.675 156.675 Port Operations
74 156.725 156.725 Port Operations
77 156.875 156.875 Port Operations (Intership only)
78A 156.925 156.925 Non-Commercial
79A 156.975 156.975 Commercial. Non-Commercial in Great Lakes only
80A 157.025 157.025 Commercial. Non-Commercial in Great Lakes only
81A 157.075 157.075 U.S. Government only - Environmental protection operations.
82A 157.125 157.125 U.S. Government only
83A 157.175 157.175 U.S. Coast Guard only
84 157.225 161.825 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
85 157.275 161.875 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
86 157.325 161.925 Public Correspondence (Marine Operator)
AIS 1 161.975 161.975 Automatic Identification System (AIS)
AIS 2 162.025 162.025 Automatic Identification System (AIS)
88A 157.425 157.425 Commercial, Intership only.

(This chart is also available in text or Excel versions)

VHF Maritime Spectrum Chart
NOAA Weather Radio Frequencies

Channel Frequency (MHz)
WX1 162.550
WX2 162.400

WX3 162.475
WX4 162.425

WX5 162.450
WX6 162.500

WX7 162.525


See the NOAA Weather Radio Homepage for more information.

Additional Information, Frequencies, & Charts

Frequencies are in MHz. Modulation is 16KF3E or 16KG3E.

Note that the letter "A" indicates simplex use of the ship station transmit side of an international duplex channel, and that operations are different than international operations on that channel. Some VHF transceivers are equipped with an "International - U.S." switch for that purpose. "A" channels are generally only used in the United States, and use is normally not recognized or allowed outside the U.S. The letter "B" indicates simplex use of the coast station transmit side of an international duplex channel. The U.S. does not currently use "B" channels for simplex communications in this band.

Boaters should normally use channels listed as Non-Commercial. Channel 16 is used for calling other stations or for distress alerting. Channel 13 should be used to contact a ship when there is danger of collision. All ships of length 20m or greater are required to guard VHF channel 13, in addition to VHF channel 16, when operating within U.S. territorial waters. Users may be fined by the FCC for improper use of these channels. See Marine Radio Watch Requirements for further information.

See the Federal Communications Commission's Marine VHF Radio Channels page. The FCC page does not include frequency information, but has more complete information on the use of the channels. If you notice any discrepancy between these two lists, please notify us at cgcomms@uscg.mil.

Also available are International VHF Maritime Radio Channels and Frequencies, Narrowband VHF Maritime Channels and Frequencies, Radio Information for Boaters , and U.S. Coast Guard VHF Distress and Safety Coverage Charts

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

agree.

 

[ratlsnaktj]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

If you look in the CFR is clearly prohibits the use of marine band VHF in land based vehicles. Only a private marine coast station licensee is allowed to apply for a marine utility license. To be able to get a private coast station you must prove you are a search and rescue operation or similar business. Even then the max output from a land based vehicle is only 10 watts, meaning handheld only, which is also specifically named in the CFR.

A few months ago there was someone who was chatting it up on a VHF all day saying he was in a vehicle. The FCC tracked him down and ended up behind him driving down a main road, once he transmitted with them that close, it was game over for him. It is a big fine for using marine band from land if you're not licensed by the FCC to do so.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

Well you better reread the FCC rules for Marine VHF because neither station can be on land with out a special permit. Yes the Coast Guard has land stations and marina have a permit on file. Also some Party Boat base stations. Bridges and Vesssel Traffic Service and Sea Tow service. You might also note that each channel has a specific use for Vessels.

If you are a boater and a Ham I would think that you would understand that VHF Marine is not a CB. It for the saftey of boats at sea who may need help. Chit chat is also NOT Allowed on VHF Marine band by rule. People do it but it only for comm related to the saftey and navigation of the vessel.

If you are a Ham why not just use 70 watts on your 2 meter base station and mobile. It is legal and what HAM radio is used for. Or set up your own repeater on the 440 band. VHF Marine is limited to 25 watts. The VHF HAM band you can use way more power and not endanger someone life because the wife wants you to bring home a loaf of bread.
They is not even a code requirement for 2 Meters and the 440/ 70 cm band anymore.
Get a Cell phone and leave VHF Marine for the saftey of Vessel on the Water.

I'll address, or try to address, each one independently.

I am aware of the uses for all these different frequencies, but if you can't have a shore station, why have dozens of freqs listed as "ship to shore?" Who the hell is he talking to on shore?

I do understand that Channel 16 is for the safety of boats. That is the sole purpose of that frequency. However, if you read the rules it states to make contact on channel 16 and go to another frequency if its not an emergency. If it's not an emergency, then it's chit chat. That's allowed. Nowhere is it stated that it's not. I monitored channel 16 for 6 months on my scanner at the house and never heard anything but general chit chat. I would never use 16, I would use some oddball never used freq like 70 or something.

"Why not use 70 watts on your 2 meter base and mobile?" Well, because it takes 2 to talk, and I'm the only one who has a Ham license, so it would be highly illegal for me to set up and use a station and allow a non-licensed Ham to operate it. Again, yea I can set up my own repeater, but then I'd still be talking to dead air as I don't have any licensed HAMs in my family or friend network (with one exception but he's not a really close friend) to talk to. I encouraged my father to get his tech so we could use it instead of cell phones but he has neither the time nor desire to study for it.

No code is needed for all the licenses now, I have a general, and its no-code necessary. I'll get an expert license one day, still no code necessary for it.


The reason I spent the time studying for my Ham test was to avoid having to use a cell phone. Our local repeater has a phone patch that I use to call home for quick inquiries about milk at the store type stuff. There are no dead spots within 25 miles of that repeater, more if I'd have a better antenna. So no, I won't get a cell phone. I also won't use marine VHF in my vehicle as I have no reason to.

I don't appreciate the attitude you have toward me, like I'd already done something wrong. I simply asked if someone had done it.

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

If you think these guys are tough, try posting that question on qrz.com.

Seriously, if you're not using it illegaly then don't take it personally. Most HAMs have spent years studying the FCC rules and learning morse code to be able to get their license and the no-code requirements have brought a whole new breed of people on the air. The new breed seem to have less respect for the rules and this really irritates most old-school HAMs. The answer to your question is something that the old-skool HAMs know because they had to know it to get licensed.

Personally, I'm part of the new breed since I didn't pass a code test and what I've learned is that if you're polite and respectful of the rules, it's a great way to make new friends. I have amateur radio operator license plates on my truck (very rare in NJ) and have made plenty of contacts just from people noticing the plates.

The better question to ask is have you used your 2m rig on your boat? I have not, but from what I hear the signal reflects off the water and can dramatically increase your range. I'm just worried about getting the radio wet.

 

[ratlsnaktj]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

Please do not take any offense to what I posted. I was merely responding to the title of your thread which concerns VHF use in a land based vehicle. As a licensed private marine coast station I have major problems when others are using their VHFs from land whether it be fixed or mobile. I've taken the time and spent the cash to show need and gotten the proper license and if someone else wants to transmit from land they are more then welcome to go that same route. Otherwise I'll DF them and notify the FCC.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

WaterInFuel
I reread my post to you and I agree that it was way to strong.
I am very sorry for that and apologise.

I do feel very strongly about the Rules for VHF Marine and that is in part because
I knew when they did away with the license fewer people would follow the Rules.

I will try to answer your questions.
"if you can't have a shore station, why have dozens of freqs listed as "ship to shore?"
I not sure what channels you are talking about. Do you mean 24,25,26,27,28,84,85,and 86? Can you list the channels you are talking about?


"I do understand that Channel 16 is for the safety of boats. That is the sole purpose of that frequency. However, if you read the rules it states to make contact on channel 16 and go to another frequency if its not an emergency. If it's not an emergency, then it's chit chat. That's allowed. Nowhere is it stated that it's not. I monitored channel 16 for 6 months on my scanner at the house and never heard anything but general chit chat. I would never use 16, I would use some oddball never used freq like 70 or something.""

Channel 16 is the calling and distress Channel and by rule every vessel is required to matain a watch on Channel 16. I have read FCC Rules back when you were required to have a licence and Call Sign. Chit Chat is not allowed on any channel but most do it anyway. Still most call are not chit chat until you get on to the non commerical channels. I do not know where you live where you here chit chat on Channel 16 but out here if it last for more than about on minute Coast Guard will send them a call telling them to move to another channel. If you then tune to channel 21 you will here them call their vessel out on the water to try and pinpoint ther location.
CHANNEL 70 is a very important channel and voice communication are not allowed. Channel 70 is used DSC Digital Selective Calling. Every radio sold today has a red button. The DSC button if you have a mmsi number and the radio tied to a GPS then the radio will send a distress call on channel 70 when the red button has been pushed. It gives the vessel position and mmsi number to the Coast Guard and every other boat in range.

HAM Radio is made for the use you are looking for and Yes you do need to be licensed. I have a advanced class license and have had since the 60's. My wife has a TECH license with code and it took her about 3 month to get it. One of the repeater clubs had classes one night a week and at the end of the class would give the test. She had trouble with the Code and frequency but learned the basis Electronics with no problem. Also My Son took the same classes and got his novice licence on the same date as the Wife which was neat as there Call Signs are the same except one ends in E and the other in F. It took him two tries to get hisTech License but he was still in high school. The reason I stoped at Advanced was because I had a hard time passing the 13 word per minute to get to General. Upgrade to advanced was easy for for Extra when I would have taken it was 20 word per minute Code and I did not think I could ever go that fast.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/20.htm

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

TBarCYa

2 meters works no better than Marine VHF on the boat.
Think about it they are almost the same frequency. 2 metters 144 to 148 MHZ.
VHF Marine 156 to 157 MHZ. In fact my 2 meter rigs will recieve the Marine VHF band.
Both are VHF and line of site commuication, no skip and only about 10 percent bending.

If there is a high mounted repeater then that may work.

Coast Guard also has high mounted reciever and transmiters, so a range of 80 miles or more is easy. I belive soon Coast Guard will have full coverage of the California Coast.

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

Boatist, you forget that marine VHF is limited in power and 2m isn't (more or less) so there can be a difference in performance. Regarding skips, I'm only relaying what I read on one of the HAM sites as I've never tried it myself for fear of getting my 2m rig wet.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

Yes the Coast Guard has land stations and marina have a permit on file. Also some Party Boat base stations. Bridges and Vesssel Traffic Service and Sea Tow service.

This is absolutely the law. Permits can be had for shore transmission, but only by certain businesses and agencies that need one.

I've never heard of a law against "chit-chat" on marine freqs however. In fact the Coast Guard advertises certain channels just for this purpose, or used to anyway.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

TBarCYa
No I did not forget the Power difference.
VHF is line of site and you could run 500 watt and not gain 2 miles.
A boat transmiter range with and antenna top about 10 foot off the water is under 5 miles. To this you would add the other boat range of 5 miles with the same type of set up for a total of boat to boat of about 10 miles.
Actually it 4.49 miles for 10 foot high antenna.

The formula is Square Root of antenna height in feet times 1.42 = distance in miles.

Add the distance for the other boat or station and you will have your total distance, boat to Boat.

Here is a link notice no power factor included because it really makes no difference.

http://www.shakespeare-marine.com/faq2.asp?ReqNum=9

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

I'm not going to argue with you over this but will leave you with one question to consider. Why is it that most boats don't just run handheld VHF radios rather than higher powered installed units?

Bon Voyage.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

I'm not going to argue with you over this but will leave you with one question to consider. Why is it that most boats don't just run handheld VHF radios rather than higher powered installed units?

Bon Voyage.

He already explained this.

Line of sight...antenna height.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

TbarCYa

I'm not going to argue with you over this but will leave you with one question to consider. Why is it that most boats don't just run handheld VHF radios rather than higher powered installed units?

Bon Voyage.

There are a lot of reasons to use a Fixed mount 25 watt radio over a hand held unit.
I always recomend the first VHF radio should be a fixed mount 25 watt radio with a Good 6 DB antenna.

1: The batteries rarely die on the Fixed mount right when you need it most.

2: The hand Held has about 5 watts out in high power and feed into a -3db antenna so has a ERP (Effective Radiated Power) of about 2.5 watts. The fixed mount radio has 25 watts out into a 6 DB antenna with a ERP of 100 Watts out.

3:Many if not most people will hold the hand held if front of them with the radio at about a 45 degree angle when transmitting. Since the antenna radition is output perpendicular to the antenna this means the signal toward the bow is headed straight into the water, the signal toward the stearn is headed straight into the air. The signal to the beams will have some output toward boats on your beam.

4: Most people useing a hand held on a small boat are not able to get the radio 10 feet above the water and talk into it.

5:Boat to Boat range for recreational boats is usually less than 10 miles. However Boat to Coast Guard range can be 80 miles or more because the Coast Guards antenna may be on top of a 3000 foot high mountain.
Here is an example Coast Guard Group San Francisco has two antenna on top of mountains near 3000 feet and a total of 9 antennas. These antennas are spread out to cover a large area. There watch area is at least 150 Miles up and down the coast and at least 80 miles out to sea and 80 miles inland. Out of San Francisco on any nice weekend there are likely over 1000 boats out to sea, Out of Bodega Bay 40 miles North likely another 400 boats. Many of these boats are like mine with a boat to boat range of about 9 miles. I can here about 40 boats with in the range of my boat but all 1400 boats are in range of the Coast Guard San Francisco Group.

Now if I need to put out a Mayday Call to the Coast Guard.
what do you think my chances of being herd with a hand held over all the other boats making normal call and are also closer to the Coast Guard Antennas?
This is one Place where a good antenna a 100 watts ERP will help you reach the Coast Guard.
The strongest signal is the one that will capture the channel and be herd.
This is also why every one should use 1 watt for normal operation.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

I would say that a repeater does more for a VHF signal than strength, but signal strength does matter.

There is a repeater in a city about 15 miles away. I know that's the cities location, where the actual repeater is, I don't know. That being said, on 10 watts from my window antenna in my truck I can't really hit it, I can but no voice. On 20 I have "eggs frying" in the background. On 50watts its perfectly clear. So power does matter.

Why not use a hand held? Antenna height and antenna gain. Rubber duck antennas are horrible as far as range is concerned. They can only pick up strong signals and send out weak ones. Connecting a handheld to an 8' antenna gives you the same range as a base radio connected to the same antenna. To me hand held's are just about useless. Unless you're on a small lake that you can see the other bank, it's silly to have one. Well, maybe its better than NOTHING, but not much.

Oh and Boatist, yes you were harsh. That being said, apology accepted.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Anyone use their VHF in their.....vehicle?

One place a hand held is better than a Fixed mount VHF radio. If the boat should ever Catch fire, turn over, or sink and you find you self in the water with your survival bag or raft the hand held is better.



Bodega Bay Weather today May 22 2008 I would not launch to go out into the Pacific Ocean.
Winds NW 320 degrees true @ 35 knots with Gust to 42.7, Water temperature 48.2 Degrees F
Seas 14.8 feet every 11 seconds, chop at 6.9 seconds, Wave Steepness = average.