Help identify older Johnson

Joined
Jul 9, 2008
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3
I was given a Johnson outboard that was used until 20 years ago then stored in a shed. It says Johnson Sea Horse. It is pull start, built in fuel tank on top, three blade prop, has a lever to the right front of the pull start handle, a primer and adjustment wheel to the left of the start. I can't find a plaque or stamping with the model number or HP or serial number anywhere.

It is about twice the size and weight of the little Evinrude 3 hp Lightwin I just rebuilt and tested on the lake today.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Help identify older Johnson

picture would help. right now all i know is you have an older motor.
 

F_R

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Re: Help identify older Johnson

Sounds to me like you have a TN-xx Johnson, where the xx represents two numbers wihch vary according to year. It is a 5hp motor. The lever is a neutral clutch. Flipping it outward puts the motor in neutral. Before you ask, it has to be running or at least pulling the cord before it will go into neutral. As soon as it stops, it goes back into forward gear. TN models were built 1950-53. Look at the base of the powerhead, opposite side of the motor from the carburetor. The model and serial numbers will be stamped into a flat spot on the casting.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
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Re: Help identify older Johnson

It helps to know where to start cleaning. The number was right where you said. It is a TN26, made in 1950. Thanks.

Can you explain the neutral lever a bit more? With the motor running, I can turn out the lever and put it into neutral, but as soon as it stops, you say it goes back into forward. So do I keep holding the lever out or what?

Any other hints for this model before I tear into it and get it going like a new one?

Thanks.
 

TN-25

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May 27, 2008
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Re: Help identify older Johnson

Those were a very popular motor in their day (which was a long time ago). I have a 1950 TN-25 as well that dad bought around 1952. I don?t ever recall seeing it in use because when I was 3 dad replaced it with a new 1965 Johnson 9? (I logged a lot of hours with that one). I am due to get my old TN back after a 1 year restoration.

Just yesterday I received a ?General Instructions? (operator) manual for the TN(L) 25-26 through Art Dekalb. I already had an original for an older model TD (made 1941-49; same motor as the TN without the neutral clutch that was added for 1950) but I wanted the official word on the new neutral clutch operation. Remember that prior to 1949 no motors had a reverse gear or neutral. The 1949 Johnson QD-10 & Scott-Atwater pioneered this feature.

In the manual they say to set the magneto lever (throttle & speed lever) to somewhere within the START to STOP speed range in order to shift. DO NOT FORCE because there is a cam within the magneto advance that will not allow shifting beyond the START position to prevent over-revving. The shift lever mechanism on mine was broken, go figure. Now it does not say that the motor will return to neutral when stopped. Nor does it actually state explicitly that it must be running; however the action of the various components (drum, bushing, spring) implies that there must be rotation (i.e. running) in order for the spring to tighten on the drum and bushing.

The following excerpt can explain what it actually says about neutral operation. I quote: ?The neutral clutch consists of steel bushing keyed to the lower driveshaft, an accurately ground steel sleeve driven by the upper driveshaft and a spring which is coiled both around the steel sleeve and the bushing.?
Let?s just say that flipping the neutral level controls a latch in the lower gearcase to lower the steel sleeve, thus allowing the spring to unwind and relax it?s grip between the bushing and sleeve. With shaft rotation and the lever in the engaged position, the spring will wind up in a Boa Constrictor fashion, thus firmly locking together the driving and driven elements in this scheme.

I would be careful to limit shifting to the lowest rpm, as broken springs can happen (good luck on finding a good replacement). I believe that from 1950-53 Evinrude also used the very same system on the early Fleetwin 7? .

Another caveat about these early motors (in general anything before the switch to 50:1 mixture and/or anything smaller than the model QD 10-horse) is the use of bronze bushings as main bearings to secure the main journals in the crank. You cannot simply restore correct clearance in that area by use of an overersized bearing insert; the bronze bushings are cast into the engine block. When excessive clearance happens there you get excessive compression leakage in the crankcase chamber. You have 2 cylinders & chambers operating at opposite phases; one pressurized, one in vacuum. Leakage between chambers will result in a lot of strange running characteristics like not being able to slow down & idle properly after higher rpm running. This is especially critical on rotary valve motors, the last of which at OMC was the TN 5-horse (the Evinrude 7? was a reed valve). Most people do a compression test on the cylinders and declare the motor fit; however there really isn?t an easy way to check chamber compression. The only true way to do it is to split the block and use a micrometer to measure clearance between the bearings and journals. Service manuals tell you how to deal with excessive clearance: ?replace the block and crank.? That is why mine has a low hours 1952 TN-27 block & crank, which leads me to another caveat about these sweet old motors...

Points. Up to about 1951 the old Johnsons and Evinrudes used guillotine-style points. They are obsolete and hard to find, expensive when you do find them, and a bit of a pain to set as well. My 1952 block uses newer conventional point which are readily available, will fit 6-horse motors through most of the 1970s.

The water pump was much improved on the TN. Since it was possible to engage neutral, the water pump on the lower unit was out. It was replaced by a better variable volume centrifugal pump just above the clutch.

I just wanted to prepare you for the idiosyncrasies of these long obsolete but great running motors. They were a Johnson best seller in their day. The 8.84 cu. in. displacement allows you to use piston rings for the much newer 6-horse. The 5 ? was the modernized replacement that used a full F-N-R lower unit, better and quieter mounts and isolation, plus a twist grip throttle. They also switched from a 3-port rotary valve design to a 2-port reed valve design. The 6- horse was an updated 5 ? that was basically the same through 1979.
 

F_R

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Re: Help identify older Johnson

Hard to add anything to that. But if I may explain what I said about the neutral lever: You should be able to flip it all the way out at any throttle setting below approximatly the "start" position. Once you flip it all the way out, it should stay there.

But, as I was trying to say, with the lever flipped out, nothing happens unless the motor is running or being cranked. If you try to rotate the propeller with the lever out and not running, you will think something isn't working because the propeller still engaged. Start the motor or pull the rope and the prop will turn a hair and stop--neutral. But as soon as you stop pulling the rope or shut off the motor, the prop will re-engage, even though the lever is out. Does that make sense?

I like the boa constrictor example. I always compared it to wrapping a rope several times around a tree. You could hold one end of the rope with two fingers and pull the other end so dad-gum hard you could spin the tree out of the ground..or break the rope.

The Evinrude 7.5 used the same thing in theory but different in design. Gale motors (Sea King, etc) used the same parts as the TN. Martin also used the same theory on their Twist Shift motors. Mercury has used it too. Lessee, anybody else?
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
3
Thanks everyone. I do understand the neutral lever now, and also understand how it works.

I guess before I get excited about searching for parts, I will clean it up and stick a bit of 2 cycle oil in each cylinder and try to start it. If it runs, I'm good to go. I knew the little 3 hp Evinrude Lightwin I just got needed parts so I didn't try to start it. But according to my friend, this one ran great when he sold his old boat 20 years ago.
 
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