HARD Hard Water (updated 4/22)

[Bob_VT]

I have a well and I have HARD water. This has been a known fact for a long time.

Lately the hot water heater has not been working right. It is actually rented from the power company and they maintain it. I called and they sent a plumber out.

The plumber said it need new elements. It took him over an hour (not on my dime ) to remove the bottom element. It had a slight bit of calcium build up around the element.

The pictures really do not do it justice but i put my cell phone in for reference. This stuff is as hard as plaster! I could not believe how much he dug out!

The plumber said the tank will probably need to be replaced this summer and made a note of it.

 

[JB]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Well, your mistake was to get a hot water heater. Hot water does not need heating. It is cold water that needs heating. Sorry, Bob. Just couldn't resist.

Been there, done that, etc., etc. I had a very hard water well when I lived in IL.

I got a water softener. Saving the water heater from calcium buildup was a trivial benefit compared to all of the other benefits. . . no more brown toilet bowls, no more stains in the sinks and no more feeling like a recently recovered iron artifact from the deep after a shower.

My water had a lot of iron in it as well as calcium. If you have only calcium your results may differ but they will be wonderful results.

Replaced my water heater at The Hideout last week. Still worked, but leaked.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Just calcium.... the water heater is rented from the power company for a monthly fee. I will not install a softener to save the water heater...... it is just calcium but when my wife saw it she wonder's if she really needs a calcium supplement anymore.

It leaves some rock hard water stains that are essentially white. Since I am on well water I will continue to rent the heater.

I have hot water now!

 

[arks]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

I've been struggling with hard water, too. I can live with scale and water heater replacement every 5 years, but my copper water lines spring pinhole leaks because of it, and it's driving me completely NUTS.
Does anyone know anything about those "new" electro-magnetic water systems? They really seem too good to be true. Absolutely no maintenance, and installation of these things consist of wrapping 2 wires around the water main (in opposite directions), then plugging it in.
Any feedback would be helpful. If they work as described, I might try one. I just can't bring myself to spend $4K on a traditional water treatment system that needs servicing 4 times per year.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Swap out the copper for Pex and it is not affected...... as per the plumber who was here today...... we talked about it.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

I've been struggling with hard water, too. I can live with scale and water heater replacement every 5 years, but my copper water lines spring pinhole leaks because of it, and it's driving me completely NUTS.
Does anyone know anything about those "new" electro-magnetic water systems? They really seem too good to be true. Absolutely no maintenance, and installation of these things consist of wrapping 2 wires around the water main (in opposite directions), then plugging it in.
Any feedback would be helpful. If they work as described, I might try one. I just can't bring myself to spend $4K on a traditional water treatment system that needs servicing 4 times per year.

arks, someone is giving you bad information. Hard water does not, in any way, cause pin holes in metalic plumbing. Hardness is nothing more than disolved limestone and it is basic, ie, over neutral pH. Your problem is acid, ie low pH. Water softening will do nothing for that problem as the process is pH neutral. However, it could make matters worse by removing what little basic calcium you have in the water, thus making the water more aggressive.

Absolutely, without a doubt, forget the magnets. If you have ever encountered 'snake oil', magnets are it!!!!

You need an acid neutralizing filter or possibly soda ash injection depending on the degree of your acidity. And no, they do not need service 4 times a year. Someone is trying to sell you the long deal, or should I say, the raw deal.

Also, I might add that there is no such thing as a "traditional water treatment system". Every set of analysed circumstances has specific treatment processes. There is no 'one size fits all' even thought there are many in the business that would present it that way.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Were we use to live the water was so hard that you could almost walk on it. Monster scale on everything. Here in McNeill our water is so good it just unreal.
My hot water tank use to look like yous Bob. Clean it out on a yearly basses

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Pin holes in copper is due to electrolysis. For electric heaters, you should have dielectric unions on the inlet and outlet of your tank. They will insulate your heater from the plumbing system to prevent stray current. This is very similar to the zinc anode on your outdrive of your boat.

Years ago the place I worked at had three 200 gallons hot water storage tanks. They did not install dielectric fittings. Within 6 months, 2" copper water lines that were new started springing leaks. They replaced the copper and then grounded the lines. 3 months later, the new stuff they reinstalled did it again. Finally I pointed out to the plumber about the unions,,,,,,he goes DUH! musta been an oversight. They replaced the copper again, installed the unions and no more pin holes.

Bob, that isn't bad as what I have taken out of some of the coffee brewers at our stores. A 2 gallon brewers tank will have enough of that white stuff to fill a 1 pound coffee can. One particular store will go through a brewer once every 3 months.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Pin holes in copper is due to electrolysis. .

Can be, yes. But certainly not the only reason and, in fact, it is the least likely reason. Without a proper water analysis, it is all guesswork.

Water treatment dealers today, too often do not want to confuse you with the details. Part of that is because they have not learned their craft and simply want to put equipment in your garage and take your moolah.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Just calcium.... the water heater is rented from the power company for a monthly fee. I will not install a softener to save the water heater...... it is just calcium but when my wife saw it she wonder's if she really needs a calcium supplement anymore.

It leaves some rock hard water stains that are essentially white. Since I am on well water I will continue to rent the heater.

I have hot water now!

Based on those pictures, Bob, that is extreme. Are you sure you don't live in the Dakota Badlands? Water there can be as much as 125 grains per gallon hard.

Another consideration, could any of that residue be precipitated Silica? Do you have any rings around the waterline in your toilet bowl? If so, you would have significant silica. Hardness will not leave a ring like that.

For Mrs BVT, limestone calcium is not readily assimilatable by the human body. Tell her to keep taking her supplements.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Well there was at least 2 gallons worth that was dug out .... that was all the plumber could reach via the small hole.......

I live in a town where they have marble quarries and not too far away they have slate quarries. Hmmmm silica.... the only times we get rings is if we have not used a toilet and the water has been standing.

One thing that was disturbing was the type of heating elements used. My old elements were copper and granted they died but they were last serviced
20 years ago. The new elements are steel and the plumber said they really don't last ......... Regardless it becomes the power companies worry.

These old farmhouse has been a labor of love for the past 21 years. I removed all the galvanized pipe 20 years ago and replaced it with copper..... about a year ago I had to replace the well pump and feed line but went with pvc there.

 

[DJ]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

The water here in PHX is almost hard enough to break it off at the faucets. It is really HARD on pipes and fixtures (pun intended).

I've always installed softeners and have a RO (reverse osmosis) system for drinking water.

The softener really makes a big difference in fixture life, not to mention-washer, dishwasher and for washing cars. I have one faucet (outside) hooked to the softener.

The best water system(s) I've found, so far, is Kinnetico.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Well in Feb 09 the new element that was installed started leaking.... a plumber showed up and did a quicky repair.

Yesterday we ran out of hot water. SInce the snow is gone and the ground has firmed up near the basement bulkhead..... it's replacement time.

The crew is in my basement doing the replacement now..... finally

Of course they have to re-route pipes since the new tank piping is no where near the old system. It has me thinking of the 3 Stooges Episode where they did the plumbing

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

I read....or was told....or just picked up somewhere, the tip that you should drain a gallon of water from your water heater each month.
It's so simple that I just do it (most of the time) and have never bothered to take the time to determine whether it is an old wive's tale or a valid "maintenence" item.
Might be just to get some of the sediment out before it builds too much.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Ahh the beauty of a rental hot water tank. I have a brand new 80 gallon unit. It had been 4 hours and still no hot water.... ring ring made a call and they sent the electric company rep and the plumber back out. It turns out thet the breaker went bad. I took advantage of having the electric co guy here and replaced the breaker.

Hot water tonight ....... I hope.

BTW the old tank weighed well over 600 lbs with the calcium inside

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Finally! Well the new hot water tank looks good but, the temperature was only 96 degrees at the tap

Ahhh the new required by law and plumbing code Hot/cold water blending valve was not adjusted. A few minutes in the basement and WOW we have hot hater now

 

[WizeOne]

Re: HARD Hard Water

Re: HARD Hard Water

Finally! Well the new hot water tank looks good but, the temperature was only 96 degrees at the tap

Ahhh the new required by law and plumbing code Hot/cold water blending valve was not adjusted. A few minutes in the basement and WOW we have hot hater now

What an ordeal for something that has always been so simple. Glad ya got it worked out.