Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

[Krustacean]

Hi, this is my first post so I hope I get it right. I have a 79 Chrysler Skier700 (70hp). On Saturday it ran like a dream then on Sunday I bought a fresh tank and new oil which I mixed at 50:1. I went to start it and it would only run in neutral with the warm up on full. It ran very roughly at that. There was a lot of smoke and what looked like little oil slicks popping up in the water around the engine. When I backed the lever off to prepare to go into gear it would die. It would only start again with the warm on full. I pulled the plugs and all 3 were covered in black oily residue. I went and got a fresh tank of fuel with my spare tank (from a different servo) and tried again. Got the motor to start and run although still a little smokey at first. I took it for a blast across the bay and back and she ran well at high speed. When I backed off the revs to near idle she died. It wouldn't start again until I'd cleaned the plugs which were now covered in a dry, black soot. I pulled the boat outa the water and took it home. Gave the plugs a clean, drained the fuel bowls into a jar (no water present) and tried to start it. She fired up but was running quite rough. I checked the 3 plugs and they all have excellent spark. With the middle plug out it seems to run better than when the plug is in. I then checked compression and the top and bottom cylinder were at 140-150 PSI. The middle cylinder was only at 110 PSI.
My question(s) is/are, what could cause an engine to just go from running like a dream to running like a pig overnight. Could the lower compression cause the idle issues. Is there any thing I can do or should I take it to someone for a check and tune.
Ps. It is pumping water OK although the water that comes out the back is very hot. The head also gets quite hot but you can still hold your hand on it.
Pps.I have only owned this motor for 2 months and I've had it in the water 5/6 times and she's been fine on each go.
Thanxs in advance for any help

 

[natedawg]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

although im not too good at this i will give it a try... first i have heard that you should be within 10% on all cylinders so 110 and 140-150 is on the edge, but it should still run fairly well. i would try to carbonize with deep creep and a change of plugs. i have had a few Chrysler engines and think that they are great but they are old and hard to get parts for. i have had a 105 and a 135. and just yesterday i got my first force... a 150 we will see how i like it its a fresh rebuilt top to bottom.. try the Decarb and set of plugs i have found that both Chrysler i had like to run on fresh plugs...

P.S. if you want a Manuel i have a service Manuel if you send me a private message with your info i will sent it out.

P.S. i also have the 135hp it blew #1 cylinder so i have parts off of it. it ran well until #1 went so any other parts your welcome to.(i even bought a new piston and ring set for it)

hope this helps

Nathan

 

[Krustacean]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

Thanks for your help Nathan. I have since been back on the tools and taken the head off. The middle cylinder has slight scoring which leads me to believe that the rings are shot. Top and bottom cylinder are as smooth as. The gasket looks quite new and has no signs of damage and it doesn't look like there is any damage around the water jackets. Iwould be interested in getting the manual off you, tho I am located in Australia. I am going to ring around and price repair costs and weigh up my options. Thanxs again for your info.
Darren

 

[bloodygazza]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

Darren,

Maybe pop the suss piston to see if the rings are stuck? That was the problem on a motor I bought about a month ago as a parts motor that had low comp on the bottom cylinder. Some soaking, heating and manipulation fortunately freed them up and it's good as gold.

M&W Marine in Sydney have a great supply of parts for Chryslers. Good service and I usually receive things next-day. I recently priced pistons/rings, about $140 a pot.

Gary.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

Sounds like you have a couple of problems with the 70. Minor scoring can give acceptable compression but yours is right on the edge. What you don't know is how it is affecting what is called base crancase compression. This is the skirt of the piston inducting air/fuel and compressing it to blow it up into the combustion chamber. Poor base compression will affect idle AND power.

Now, tell me if I am correct: At 1979, your engine should have a one piece lower unit and Prestolite ignition with quick-connect plastic fittings on the wiring, two CD boxes, and three coils.

This ignition is very reliable BUT because it functions much like a magneto, at low speeds, it produces the weakest spark. Thus: when the engine won't idle properly but runs well at high speed, the first thing to do is clean or replace the plugs. The surface gap L20V plugs are advertised as being resistant to fouling but in reality they foul easier than bent electrode plugs. DO NOT USE BENT ELECTRODE PLUGS! To do so will cause the engine to melt holes in the top of the pistons. Use Champion L20V (322), UL18V, or NGK BUH, or BUHX

Plugs that are so badly fouled in such a short time indicate that the engine is running WAY rich. You need to check the main or high speed jets to be certain that they are the correct size, check the carb floats to be certain they are not fuel soaked and set to the correct height, and check the carb inlet needles to be certain they are sealing when the float rises.

You need to set the low speed needles to 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated and then adjust them for idle. NEVER close them to less than 3/4 turn. This is too lean and will melt pistons at or near full throttle.

When you clean the carbs, flip them upside down. Float height should be set LEVEL with the main casting. The weight of the float should close the needle and you should not be able to blow through the fuel inlet nipple.

Chrysler and Force engines are relatively easy and cheap to repair so in my opinion, it is ALWAYS worth repairing them unless corrosion damage is so great that the base castings are not useable.

First I would try clearing your other problems THEN if not satisfied, bore the center cylinder oversize to whatever cleans it up. You have your choice of .010, .020, and .030 inch oversize pistons. Even though they sell .040 oversize, do not bore to that. It leaves the cylinder walls too thin. and factory does not recommend it.

First choice, go to The Chrysler Crew and see if you can get a factory manual. Second choice buy a Clymers. Do not buy a Seloc. Most people complain about them.

140 US seems like a lot for a piston. How is the exchange rate for the Australian dollar? Wiseco sells worldwide but shipping to down under would probably cost a good penny. Still, worth seeing if you have a distributor there though.

If you can hold your hand on the head, then it is not too hot! Remember at 135 and higher, hot water scalds skin and the engine is designed to run at about 160. So: that's OK as far as water temp.

 

[bloodygazza]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

AU$140, which is about US$95, including rings, all oversizes is stock and not a special order-in. However, don't know brand but possibly genuine (old stock)? At current ex rate, per the Wiseco online catalogue list of US$111 converts to AU$167 so not a huge premium for forged Wiseco's. But as you say, add shipping and delivery time .......... there are Wiseco distributors however no Chrysler pistons in stock - in the country. Cheaper (and probably faster) to personally import direct.

All things considered, I think we're lucky that with some research and phone calls, parts haven't been that difficult to source. Touch wood, I have not had a part that I have not been able to source yet.

Finding sympathetic repairers who'll even look at a Chrysler, however, is another story!

Sorry Darren ..... I digressed .....

 

[Krustacean]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

Cheers everyone for your responses. I have since taken the exhaust plate off and I can see the piston and rings. Top and bottom are perfect, the middle one tho has damage to the top 3rd of the piston and rings. The damage doesn't look too bad, it looks like the rings have been squished a little over
the edges of the piston and the piston looks scored along the edge. The bottom 2/3rds of the piston is perfect.(from what I can see). I have also discovered that there is NO thermostat installed. The inside of the head looks quite clean and there are areas where I can still see what looks like the original alloy which is not covered by soot.

To Frank: This motor has only one coil, electronic ignition and one CD box. I'm not sure what you mean about the 1 piece lower unit.

I have a good friend coming over this arvo, he's a very good vehicle mechanic with experience on outboards and inboards. He'll give me his thoughts on the damage and possible solution. Also thru him I'll have connections to get the cylinder honed etc. I have spoken to some dealers in Sydney and they say they'll have the parts I will need or can get them.
I have experience rebuilding dirt bike engines and I have even rebuilt a small car engine. I would like to think I have the skill to do this job.
My first task will be to get a manual, as per everyone's advice, and then take my time. Seloc or Clymer?????
My biggest concern is throwing good money after bad and putting in all the work only to find more problems. Although I would like to think that after putting in the time and effort I will have a motor I can rely on. The trim and tilt works very well, The starter fires first time and the general appearance of the interior of the outboard is very good too. No rust or corrosion, good wire connections and no damaged wires. I've also been informed that this model motor has a heavy duty gear box as standard.
I will continue to post progress reports and would like to thank you all again for your help. Please feel free to add more info.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 1979 Skier700 issues

One piece lower unit is just that--one piece. The two piece lower unit had the gearcase bolted to the mid body. It had water intakes above the gearcase, and the prop was 17 splines with a locating pin in the front of the hub. Tailcone held the thrust pin in place and it--the cone was secured with a cotter pin.

The one piece lower located the prop with a thrust washer behind it. Water pick up slots were on the gearcase right behind the prop. The tailcone was secured to the shaft with a screw.

If you have a black aluminum finned CD box with the small coil attached to it, and a distributor, this would be Motorola ignition and would be early 1979.

Definitely Clymer!

If you do need to disassemble the engine and bore it, give some thought to putting in a little extra effort and porting both bypass and exhaust. It will yeils a significant increase in power for about 6 hours time and no money invested.