Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

[tomdog1970]

I'm having some problems with a Force starter. I've read almost every thread here and have done most. I took the starter in and had it rebuilt. The very next day after several start attempts it is sluggish again. I had a Navy aircraft electrician come over and go through some things. Anyway is it normal to have the starter hot post to read continuity with the casing? when disassembled I have the two pos and two neg brushes, but when I put it into the case the post grounds out. Is this a shorted armature?

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

A good starter when energized will only have about 0.6 ohms which on most meters will read as a short to ground. This is why all connections need to be clean and tight. If not you create contact resistance which will create a voltage divider and then not all the voltage needed will get to the starter. Check the grounds and the wires just where the insulation starts could be getting charred and not able to flow current as well. Force motors require a pretty precise starting procedure when cold. Problem is that the starters put on these motors are not real good and because people have problems starting the motor they crank and crank which damages the starter. Your rebuild place may have done new brushes and a new bearing but if it was not re wound chances are the starter is still bad.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Remove the plugs and do a compression test.Poor comp will make it seem like a bad starter.J

 

[john from md]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Can your Bendix be slipping and you just notice the slow turning of the flywheel?

Watch the starter shaft closely when you try to start next time. See if it is still turning as the flywheel is hesitating.

A new starter can be bought from Ebay for $76. I just got one and I can vouch for the guy. If you check my posts, you will find the name of the dealer that I bought it from.

John

 

[MWBROWN]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Also, a not so good, or not well charged battery will cause you fits.
It is amazing how much a good battery will help.

My 2 cents

Mike

 

[J2theGriff]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

I have experienced a similiar problem on my Force and finally noticed that the drive gear on the starter was failing and eventually just spun free.A brush kit and the new bendix ($20 from iboats) solved the problem and she cranks very well now. Of course I attribute that to the people on this forum.. thanks again you guys!

Griff

"There are 3 types of people in this world, those who can count and those who cannot"

FISH ON!

 

[JB]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

When did you pull and clean all connections in the starter circuit, check all cables for corrosion or weak spots, and do a voltage drop test?

Trying to test a starter or the starter circuit with an ohmmeter is like trying to measure ounces in a barrel.

 

[tomdog1970]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Well, so far I've cleaned all the connections, used 4 different batteries, sanded down the block where my ground is, replaced the starter, and even jumped a battery straight to the starter. All with the same results. I bought a compression tester and don't know if I can get the motor to spin fast enough to get an accurate reading. I did the top two cylinders and only got about 30. I'm ready to launch the boat without the plug

 

[81 beachcomber]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

I'm ready to launch the boat without the plug

dont do it!!
i have no idea about this but when i bought my boat it had a fairly new "voltage regulater" (this is where the positive wire to the starter comes from) maybe this could be the problem??

someone with more knowledge, any opinions??

just thought it might be something to check before you sink the boat.

 

[81 beachcomber]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Trying to test a starter or the starter circuit with an ohmmeter is like trying to measure ounces in a barrel.

you get drunk before the job is done??? lol

 

[john from md]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

I know this is late in the game to ask this but, did you pull the plugs and rotate the engine by hand? Did it turn free? If not, you have internal engine damage and that is what is causing your starter drag.

Question 2 - are you sure that the new starter you obtained is a 12 volt and not a 24 volt?

Can't think of anything else.

John

 

[tomdog1970]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

OK, I pulled all the plugs and got it to spin pretty good. when I put a flywheel tool on it, it hits a tight spot. Also the bottom 2 plugs were somewhat darker than the top two. Should I go ahead and order a rebuild kit? I leave for Iraq in two weeks, should I even start this?

 

[john from md]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Spray fogging oil in the intakes and in the cylinders. Rotate the engine by hand a few times and spray some more oil in it. Close it up and relax for two weeks.

You will have enough stress in country so try to relax for a while while you can.

Thanks for your service.

A fellow VET

John

 

[tomdog1970]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

35 in #1, 40 in #2, 95 in #3, and 120 in #4. If my compression is a lot less than what it is supposed to be why is the starter having such a hard time moving the pistons?

 

[TexasBayFisher]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

Your #1 and #2 cylinders are definitely DEAD.
Spray some Seafoam deep creep into the 1,2,3 cylinders to try bringing them up. You want to spray a bunch in each cylinder and let it sit for 6 hours.
Come back in 6 hours and spray more in all 3 problem cylinders and install the plugs half way and bump the starter 10-15 times to coat the cylinders and force it past the rings (plug wires off). Remove all plugs have someone hold the starter while you spray some deep creep in all 3 problem cylinders. Let it sit some more....
THEN take 3/4 gallon of gas, put 2 ounces of pre-mix in it, and 1 whole can of Sea Foam and run it at full throttle on the water.

That's how the decarbon process works but it sounds like that engine has not been well cared for. It may have broken rings.

 

[sailingwest]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

OK, I pulled all the plugs and got it to spin pretty good. when I put a flywheel tool on it, it hits a tight spot. Also the bottom 2 plugs were somewhat darker than the top two. Should I go ahead and order a rebuild kit? I leave for Iraq in two weeks, should I even start this?

only advice I can give you is keep your head down and safe home,

take care

Jim B

 

[tomdog1970]

Re: Can you imagine? FORCE starter question

I just wanted to give an update. I did a decarb. The starter started spinning strong. It got to the point when all I had to do was barely bump the key and it would fire up. However, it did start dragging again. I'll keep playing with it. Trying to keep from cracking it open until I get back. Thanks for all the help.