5200 or epoxy

[ken52]

In the process of repowering I am cleaning up the wiring that runs inside gunwale. I am thinking of glueing some hanging brackets inside to keep the wires off the deck inside the gunwale area.

What type of adheasive would work better, there is a type of sprayed on foam on the inside?

The bracket base I would make will probably be made of starboard.

Is this a good idea or is it better to just let the wire lay as they have been?

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[robert graham]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Maybe use tie-wraps to bundle wires and hold in place, then it's easy to open back up for future electrical troubleshooting. good luck!

 

[ken52]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Thanks Robert, still need to attach ties to inside of hull.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

When I have to attach stuff to the hull, I have epoxied small pieces of 1/2" thick pressure treated ply. Usually a 1.5 x 3" piece works, and then the 1/2 or 3/4" nylon pipe hangers can be screwed on. The pipe hangers work well to support steering cables and wires run in the plastic corrugated housing. Easy to remove one screw to open up the hanger and add another wire when needed. These pipe hangers are open on the bottom, so by removing the bottom screw, the hanger can be pulled open the the cable will drop out the bottom. The top screw holds the hanger in place until its all reassembled.

Here is a 1/2" pipe hanger supporting fuel line. Ply is pressure treated so it won't rot and doesn't need painting or coating in resin, screws are 1/2" stainless, epoxy is common stuff from hard ware store. Pipe hangers are available at Home Depot or Lowes.

The corrugated wire loom can be found at auto parts stores in various sizes.

 

[dingbat]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

When I have to attach stuff to the hull, I have epoxied small pieces of 1/2" thick pressure treated ply. Usually a 1.5 x 3" piece works, and then the 1/2 or 3/4" nylon pipe hangers can be screwed on. The pipe hangers work well to support steering cables and wires run in the plastic corrugated housing. Easy to remove one screw to open up the hanger and add another wire when needed. These pipe hangers are open on the bottom, so by removing the bottom screw, the hanger can be pulled open the the cable will drop out the bottom. The top screw holds the hanger in place until its all reassembled.

Here is a 1/2" pipe hanger supporting fuel line. Ply is pressure treated so it won't rot and doesn't need painting or coating in resin, screws are 1/2" stainless, epoxy is common stuff from hard ware store. Pipe hangers are available at Home Depot or Lowes.

The corrugated wire loom can be found at auto parts stores in various sizes.

Great idea but....treated ply may not rot but it will delaminate quite easily and it will leech chemicals when subjected to mositure. Suggest encapsulating the wood, using marine plywood or using some sort of a solid composite material instead.

 

[scbackpacker]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

A neat way to do your cables is to use a cable wrap. Some ideas.
http://cableorganizer.com/spiral-wrap/.
A bag of tie wraps would be cheaper and they make a neat bundle also.
Another is to use tie wraps and stick on bases.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...E3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=V4NLZMGC1Bbe7DGP4DVB14gl
Peel the protective paper off and stick them on.
I don't know how well they will stick to rough fiberglass but we use these in our electrical panels and they hold up really good.
Mark42's strap looks really good. I like it

 

[Mark42]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Great idea but....treated ply may not rot but it will delaminate quite easily and it will leech chemicals when subjected to mositure.....

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Pressure treated ply is designed to be in contact with water and the ground.. I have never had it delaminate due to moisture, in fact it uses water proof glue. Also, the pressure treating chemicals can not "wash out" as they become bonded to the celulose fibers. Only chemicals present on the surface pose a issue because they can be worn off leaving some arsenic residue on the skin. But with the new formulas, I don't believe arsenic is an issue.

Marine grade is a poor choice if not encapsulated because it rots when in contact with water. Marine grade does not imply rot proof, and unless pressure treated marine grade is purchased, it will rot just like regular ply. But the glue is water proof.

The best solution is what you mentioned about using a composite. Just not sure what composite is cheap, epoxy bonds well with, and easy to work with like ply.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

A neat way to do your cables is to use a cable wrap. Some ideas.
http://cableorganizer.com/spiral-wrap/.
A bag of tie wraps would be cheaper and they make a neat bundle also.
Another is to use tie wraps and stick on bases.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...E3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=V4NLZMGC1Bbe7DGP4DVB14gl
Peel the protective paper off and stick them on.
I don't know how well they will stick to rough fiberglass but we use these in our electrical panels and they hold up really good.
Mark42's strap looks really good. I like it

I like the cable wrap. Nice the way wire can exit where you want.

I used the adhesive based cable tie bases, they did not last 2 months in the boat. Moisture caused the adhesive to fail. They were only holding up a 4 wire bundle. So on the boat, use the bases that can be screwed on.

Thanks for the links, scbackpacker.

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Don't use 5200 for this application if you ever want to be able to remove it. Use 4200 instead. 5200 will create a permanent bond. Use that stuff with care!

 

[HoosierShooter]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Pressure treated ply is designed to be in contact with water and the ground.. I have never had it delaminate due to moisture, in fact it uses water proof glue. Also, the pressure treating chemicals can not "wash out" as they become bonded to the celulose fibers. Only chemicals present on the surface pose a issue because they can be worn off leaving some arsenic residue on the skin. But with the new formulas, I don't believe arsenic is an issue.

Marine grade is a poor choice if not encapsulated because it rots when in contact with water. Marine grade does not imply rot proof, and unless pressure treated marine grade is purchased, it will rot just like regular ply. But the glue is water proof.

The best solution is what you mentioned about using a composite. Just not sure what composite is cheap, epoxy bonds well with, and easy to work with like ply.

Arsenic is not a problem anymore, not that I thought it ever was. I actually preferred the older treatment to the new as the new stuff posses a new problem. Make sure you use stainless or coated screws as the new treatment will react to untreated metal when moisture is present. I have seen un-treated deck screws disintegrated after only 60 days and aluminum flashing eaten up in 30. When I was a building inspector a few years ago one of the local lumber companies did some testing with the new treated lumber in the elements that I watched with much interest.

I like Mark 42's idea, but I would prefer to use a spiral wrap for easier access to the wires when the time comes, as it usually does.

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

To protect your wires and other cables, you may wish to run them inside a length of PVC pipe, several short pieces or one long one. You may attach the PVC pipe under your gunwale with spray foam, judiciously applied. This makes the install easy to remove for future repairs and modifications, plus no holes, drilling, rotting, or rusting parts. Worked for me.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: 5200 or epoxy

I wouldn't think your wood blocks, of any material, will rot in your boat's lifetime, unless in a wet area like a bilge bottom. Only exception is red oak; it turns black and rots if you say "water" near it.
For a composite to make blocks: scraps of starboard or composite decking material; scraps of mahogany (found free on junk furniture) or cut up a plastic cutting board (to be real cheap, get one at a yard sale first!).
On the inside of my center console "cabin" I bolted pieces of finished lumber (approx 1x3 scrap from kitchen remod trim) so there are just two SS bolts, finished, coming through the console. These are mounted like crown molding in a house. To these I can screw a variety of hooks, clamps and hangers for lines, flashlights, rain gear, ditty bags, etc. instead of a pile on the floor.

 

[ken52]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Nice setup Mark42 and thanks to all the other suggestions. Have a supply of 1/2" starboard that I would be making my blocks from. Just wasn't sure what type of adhesive/epoxy to use. I like the use of the hangers too Mark, will definetly be getting some of those too. I may even have some 4200 around too. Thanks again to all.

 

[dingbat]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Pressure treated ply is designed to be in contact with water and the ground.

Take note of reference to pressure treated plywood (CDX) below

Wood structural panels may be produced in three bond classifications: Exterior, Exposure 1 and Interior. The bond classification relates to adhesive bond, and thus to the structural integrity of the panel. By far, the predominant bond classifications are Exposure 1 and Exterior.


Exterior Plywood Panels are bonded with fully waterproof glue and are suitable for repeated wetting and redrying or long-term exposure to weather or other conditions of similar severity.

Exposure 1 Plywood Panels are suitable for uses not permanently exposed to weather. Panels classified as Exposure 1 are intended to resist the effects of moisture due to construction delays, or other conditions of similar severity. These panels are manufactured with the same fully waterproof glues as used in Exterior plywood; however, because of other compositional factors that may affect bond performance, only Exterior panels should be used for long-term exposure to weather. Exposure 1 panels may, however, be used where exposure to the outdoors is on the underside only, such as at roof overhangs.

APA Rated Sheathing Exposure 1 plywood, commonly called CDX, is often times confused with an Exterior plywood panel and misused in applications. It is important to understand the difference between these classifications in order to select the best panel for your project.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 5200 or epoxy

Take note of reference to pressure treated plywood (CDX) below

I don't understand what you're referring to. What is it you are trying to point out? CDX does not imply pressure treated, if that is what you are saying.

Common pressure treated plywood found at lumber yards is not Exposure 1, it is rated Exterior.

From the APA

Exterior panels are suitable for repeated wetting and redrying or long-term exposure to weather or other conditions of similar severity

Is that what you are saying?