Carbs cleaned now what???

[fishgillz]

Well this all starts about 2 years ago... I had a few problems with my 1996 225 johnson so I changed the power pack, the stator, and the idle timing base. That fixed the original problems. Now the boat starts up fine but the idle is all nuts. It floats around 3000 rpms and sounds horrible. (like it's coughing) I ran it with two year old gas and that was a horrible idea. So we cleaned out the carbs and got some new sparkplugs and same problem. Now when I unplug 2 of the sparkplugs while the engines running it doesn't effect it at all. So my friend says I have two bad carburetors. I changed around the "working carbs with the "NOT" working carbs and no change! Whats broken here? It's been a LONG journey fixing this engine so any help will do!!! And if you can't tell I don't a ton about mechanics besides what I'm learning on this engine so speak in lamens terms please!

 

[jonesg]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

So the idle will not drop below 3K ?
Sounds like a massive air leak or ignition advance is stuck.

Make sure the butterfly plates are fully closing at idle, remove the airbox and look. Look for loose carbs, leaking carb gaskets. An air leak will make it run lean and overspeed at idle.

If yours is a 60 deg head read this.
http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zerothread/357667-throttle-roller-timing-arm-adjustment-60-motors

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

you need to carefully check all of your linkage and timing, also air leak as mentioned.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

1996 225 is a 90* looper, with plastic carbs.
But just to make sure you get the right advice, please post model number.
E225STLEDM for example. Locaated on engine mounting bracket, port side.

As mentioned above, link and sync, and look for air leaks.

Where are you located?
I am very interested in the outcome of this problem...

 

[fishgillz]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll post the model number tomorrow when I get back home. I'm located in Miami Florida Kendall area. I can set the idle lower but it will just shut off quickly. The only way to keep it running is around 3k rpm's. How would I check for an air leak? I know we tried choking out each carb one by one and each time it shut off the engine. I took the boat to a johnson mechanic and he said I needed to clean the carbs and a linkage adjustment. I cleaned the carbs but dont know how to perform the linkage adjustment. I'm just puzzled... What does it mean that I can unplug my number 1 and 2 sparkplugs while the engine is running and it doesn't effect it in the slightest? When I unplug the others it lags out and mostly shuts off.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

did you adjust the idle up to keep it running or did it just suddenly start idling too high???

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

are you sure wires from powerpack to coils are in correct places, and coils to plugs? did you check spark with a spark tester? what is the compression on all 6 cylinders? do you have an OEM Johnson service manual?

 

[jtexas]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

...
I cleaned the carbs but dont know how to perform the linkage adjustment.
...
What does it mean that I can unplug my number 1 and 2 sparkplugs while the engine is running and it doesn't effect it in the slightest? When I unplug the others it lags out and mostly shuts off.

neither #1 nor #2 are making power. Test both of those for spark.
Also, compression test on all six.

Report your results.

"link & sync" refers to the process of syncronizing the carb throttle valves with each other and with the spark advance. You really need a manual for the step-by-step.

the throttle lever (starboard side of the powerhead) should be butted up against the idle stop screw, which should be neither all the way in or all the way out. the manual will describe the procedure for adjusting the throttle cable to accomplish this result.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

The problem is gonna be the coil which provides spark to those 2 cylinders. Remove it and clean the grounds, inspect coil wires and look very carefully for little cracks in the coil . Then throw it away.

You can try swapping coils around as you did with carbs but in the end its the coil pack. Cheap fix anyway.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

The problem is gonna be the coil which provides spark to those 2 cylinders. Remove it and clean the grounds, inspect coil wires and look very carefully for little cracks in the coil . Then throw it away.

I can see a single cylinder or a complete bank of cylinders. What are the odds of loosing two coils at the same time? I?ve seen stranger things happen thou.

My guess is he got some wires swapped around when he replaced all the other electrical stuff.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

Yes, with six individual coils, two bad at once is a very long shot. The coil wires from the pack to the coils are somewhat hard to swap to the wrong place. The lengths sort of prohibit it, but it is possible. It might be possible to mistakenly swap #1 and #3, or #2 and #4, but never across the cylinder banks. The wires are not long enough. When plugged on the wrong coil, the engine will backfire very noticibly.

Sounds like he has it idled way high to just keep it running. OP, if you try to use it, you will most surely damage the lower unit when shifting, assuming you can even shift it at that RPM.

Just to be sure, check the pack to coil wires for proper placement.
The orange/blue wires are the top coils, #1 and #2.
The orange wires are the middle coils, #3 and #4.
The orange/green wires are the bottom coils, #5 and #6.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

Another thought...
The wires from the timer base to the powerpack connect under the pack mounting bracket. One side has 4 wires in the connector, and the other side has 5 wires. If you have pushed a pin back into the rubber boot on one or both of those connectors, or if you have pinched one of the wires when bolting the pack down, you may experience dead cylinders.
Not likely to be corrosion, as the parts are new.

I pinched one of those wires to ground once, and it killed #2 and only #2.
It is really tight under there.

Check for proper spark on all 6 cylinders with a spark tester, and post back.

 

[fishgillz]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

Ok... I adjusted the idle to keep it running. The wires from the power pack are all fitted aren't they? I mean they only seamed to be able to plug back into one place. The coils to the plugs are definietly in the right place and yeah i tried swapping around the coils to see if it was them and it still had no effect when I unplug the spark plug. And we tested the spark on all the coils and it was good. We did a compression check But I didnt write down the results but they were all in the same range and it was around 60ish. I have the service manual and I will try to do the linkage adjustment. This is as good a time to learn as any I guess!

Daselbee I will definitely check out if I connected everything right and if I happen to pinch any wires in the process thanks guys!

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

60 ish on the compression??? thats a little on the low side...I think it should be over 80 ish to run well, but I am not a pro. I have seen a lot of v-6s in the 80-90 range that run ok..but I think 60ish is too low. Are you checking the spark with a spark gap tester??? just because you see a spark on the end of a plug gapped at .030 does not mean the coil is working properly. You should get a blue streak at 7/16 of an inch. spark gap tester is about $10 at an auto parts store and a great tool to own. you need to confirm the wires coming from the power pack to the coils are in the right order..I saw someone list the proper order above. If you adjusted the idle up to keep it running only after the carb rebuild, I would recheck all gaskets and hose connections, if the problem started before, maybe an ignition problem. Also you do have a NEW set of the correct plugs right?? also when you changed the power pack did you also get the new grey inductive plug wires?? if you get a CDI power pack the HIGHLY recommend them, the said the RF noise from the coils can somehow effect the power pack.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Carbs cleaned now what???

Ok... I adjusted the idle to keep it running. The wires from the power pack are all fitted aren't they? I mean they only seamed to be able to plug back into one place. The coils to the plugs are definietly in the right place and yeah i tried swapping around the coils to see if it was them and it still had no effect when I unplug the spark plug. And we tested the spark on all the coils and it was good. We did a compression check But I didnt write down the results but they were all in the same range and it was around 60ish. I have the service manual and I will try to do the linkage adjustment. This is as good a time to learn as any I guess!

Daselbee I will definitely check out if I connected everything right and if I happen to pinch any wires in the process thanks guys!

Something doesn't sound right, when you test for spark...you have to use a GAP tester set to 7/16th inch gap, thats a big gap, if you're using a sparkplug held against the block thats a problem. Its a lot harder for spark to jump when under compression, more air molecules to transit. If you don't have an adjustable gap tester , they're cheap, auto part stores sell them.

60psi is either a problem with the compression guage or the engine is in dire need of some seafoam to loosen up the rings.
The first thing that goes with compression is a reliable idle.

When you remove the offending sparkplugs from the dead cylinders, are they wet with raw fuel? If yes then its an ignition problem.

I would not adjust idle to 3K to keep it running, you can damage the dead cylinders if they are starved for lube/fuel.

A factory service manual is a big help too.
www.outboardbooks.com