Need help with repower plan..

[CB-Falchion]

I purchased a exact year unknown (late 70's) "Classic Boats 250 Falchion" (can't find any info on the company) off of ebay for $355 dollars and found that the motor was locked up. This is a "wish you could retire" present for my dad that i want to have ready for spring.. I don't have much cash to put into it but am only looking to get a couple of years out of it till I can afford a full repower. I'm not really familiar with boats but can do just about anything to a car.

what I know so far it that it's a 260 hp 4 barrel mercruiser (locked up with rainwater in the pan) and a pre-alpha drive in unknown condition with a stuck shift cable and bent skeg. What are my best options to get on the water cheap and quick? I've found a reman long block w/ 2yr guarantee for $1300, but what are my options for the outdrive? I've read conflicting info on interchangeability, will a alpha 1 lower bolt on? is there a serial number on there somewhere to know for sure what I have? Is this a power up and down version? Is it worth putting money into?

Thanks in advance for your help and time!

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

. I don't have much cash to put into it but am only looking to get a couple of years out of it till I can afford a full repower. ....Is it worth putting money into?

There's a lot to evaluate and decide before you start putting money into this thing.

The engine - you can get the long block and bolt the externals on... but are the externals (starter, alternator, carb, manifolds, etc) any good? You need to evaluate them and see. New manifolds and risers can get pricey quick.

The outdrive - you can get it pressure tested.... but worse case scenario you can buy a brand new aftermarket drive for around $1,300.

How's the transom itself? Any soft or hollow sounding spots?

Steering system? Stuck?

LOTS of things to look at before you go any further.

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

The engine - The starter clicks so im assuming that it works, no idea on the alternator, but I'm not worried about getting them rebuilt. carb im sure could use a cleaning or rebuild (about 600 hours on the clock but don't know how long it's been sitting), manifolds are solid enough for a season or 2.

The transom is solid as a rock.

Steering system moves

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Sorry to tell you that you probably paid money for something that would have costed the last owner to throw away. I have 20 bucks sitting here saying that the transom is rotted. Use a 1/4 inch drill bit and drill into the transom 1 inch from the inside of the boat, and down low as close to the floor as you can. What do you get out of the hole? Nice dry sawdust or mash potato wet pulp?

Welcome to iboats

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I have 20 bucks sitting here saying that the transom is rotted.

Transom is good, would you like my paypal name?

 

[Don S]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Hey Jason, pay up dude

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I dunnooo.... How did you check the transom specifically?

Between the hydraulic trim tabs, the tab hinges, the paddlewheel, whatever wire is on the left hand side.. etc, that's a lot of screws on the outside of the boat. And the fact that the shift slide cavity has seen alot of water... I bet it's not as dry as you think it is.

 

[JaseBosto]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

that thing scares me

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

i inspected for any stress cracks, tapped every square inch with ball peen to listen for dead spots, checked for soft spots, and inspected the screw holes for the swim platform brackets (that has been removed) visually and with a sharp snap-on pick to check texture and hardness (below later level)... but your only a couple hours away, I never turn down a second opinion... I'll have the beer, you bring that $20!

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

and that wire leads to a transducer for an long gone fishfinder, it goes up to a stainless thru-hull

This is the only example I can find of my boat, Has the same set-up

http://www.boats.com/listing/galler...4178001?r=104178001&entityid=104178001&pic=12

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Pretty sure this it the shifting problem... hahaha

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

You can try pulling out some of the screws on the trim tabs. If water starts comming out of the screw holes you know your scarewed. If not, squeeze some 5200 in the holes and put the screws back in.

I'm not trying to pizz on your parade or anything, far from that. It's just that i've seen to many boats, some in better shape than your, some worse, all have waterlogged transoms. I'd hate to see you get to deep only to find out you need a transom (aka, the boats trashed at that point)

Only a couple hours?? Where ya from. Put a location in your profile so other iboaters can see you to.

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I appreciate your concern. That's why I joined this forum, to get input from people like yourself, more experienced with boat repowering than myself. I was recently laid off from the auto business, but in the past 10 years I've gained a good mechanical knowledge as well as done more fiberglass work than I care to remember (including reglassing the cabin on my dad's 37' old fuji ketch, forced to sell). My dad (and old fisherman) had picked up a 21' cuddy a while back that we found out did have a bad transom, and with my parents losing most of their 401k, I it's become a lawn ornament because he has no time to fix it. I picked this up before I got laid off in hopes of giving it to him as a "here's something close to retirement" gift because the hull is great. Now I just need it to do it as cheap as possible to last a year or two until I can do a whole mpfi upgrade...

Thanks for the advise, I'll pull out a screw on the trim tab just to be extra sure.
PS- I'm in Windham CT, what's your beer of choice? haha

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Smuttynose IPA

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I'm sure I can find that...

so how about some ideas on my current plan... I'm thinking (after pulling a screw) get the long block for $1295 shipped (2 year warr reman) and have parts swapped over and put in by a shop, at the same time give the outdrive a going through (seals, impeller...) since it only has 650 hours showing on the clock. Wish I had a hoist big enough to swap the engine! Also considering doing the outdrive myself, depends on the labor time..

Thoughts anyone?

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Hours mean nothing my friend. Get yourself a pen and paper and calculator and get ready for some real costs.

1. The bellow is probably or has been full of water. The welch plug on the shift slide cavity is missing. Pull the drive, look at the boots and gimbal bearing, If the boots and bearing are bad, then pull them and look at the transom shield, they rot out if salt water has been sitting in the bellows for a long time. If your transom shield is gone. Plan on spending 1-2K on a used shield new boots, shift cable, gimbal bearing.

2. Pressure test the outdrive. If it fails, pull the top cap and look at the driveshaft bearing and race, they are the first to rust up. If the bearing and gears are rusty, it's cheaper at this point to buy an aftermarket replacement drive. They run about 1400 bucks

3. put a battery in the boat and see if the trim system works. If it doesn't, you can plan on spending hundreds to easily over 1k if you have a bad pump, lines, or rams.

4. pull the risers off the manifolds and look at the discharge outlet on the risers and the water ports on both the risers and the manifolds. It doesn't matter what they look like on the outside, it matters how they look on the inside. Unless the risers are fairly new, it's pretty much a rule of thumb that a new engine gets new manifolds and risers. If the manifolds/risers fail in the future, they take the engine out with them. That's another 600-1k bucks on those.

5. When you get into a boat like this, the engine is the least of your worries and cost. 350s are all a dime a dozen, but all the marine parts, both in the engine compartment and whats hanging off the back of the boat, will drain you dry. Marine parts don't nickle and dime you to death, they hundred and thousand you.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

Hours mean nothing my friend.

Absolutely true.

Marine parts don't nickle and dime you to death, they hundred and thousand you.

Again, absolutely true.

If your transom shield is gone. Plan on spending 1-2K on a used shield new boots, shift cable, gimbal bearing.

With all the above being true, I do believe you can get a used transom assembly for far less than 1-2k. When I bought my fist I/O I had all the issues that Jason mentions and then some. Found out the hard way about rebuilding the transom, having a corroded transom assembly that needed to be replaced, etc. You can usually find a good used assembly on the various auction sites and Craigslist for a couple hundred dollars if you are patient.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I do believe you can get a used transom assembly for far less than 1-2k

What I had meant by that was 1-2K for everything back there. Shield, boots, gimbal, shift cable etc. 2k may be a little on the high side, but certainly over a grand for everything if needed.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

A quick search of ebay, they have a "buy it now" complete transom assembly for only $175. Looks to be in great condition. I don't know the exact policy for these kind of links.... but if you search for "Mercruiser transom assembly" you will see several for under $500.

I do understand your point that it is potentially going to cost more than a couple of hundred dollars. I'm simply pointing out that if you are patient, and search around you can get some of the stuff for pretty cheap. Even figuring in a new gimbal bearing, shift cable and bellows.

By the way - just as an aside - the "buy it now" assembly is all white from a Sea Ray. Did Mercruiser do that? Or Sea Ray? You can see it here: Sea Ray assembly

Feel free to delete if it is against policy. I'm not selling it - just curious about the white. It's obviously been painted... but did Sea Ray have some white ones? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[CB-Falchion]

Re: Need help with repower plan..

I've heard what BOAT stands for, Bust Out Another Thousand.. haha
"marine grade" on a package doubles it's price.

I turned the outdrive to it's extents and the bellows look almost new, no dry cracks or anything. I'll do a more thorough inspection the the drive is off. The wires for the switches on the gimble are wasted though.

I have found parts cheap but am unsure what exactly will fit. From the SEI website I'm pretty sure a alpha one should bolt right up, is that true? When I put a battery in it the pump did not make a peep, but haven't checked for power to the pump yet.

I found a complete pre alpha set up for $500 (COMPLETE TRANSOM ASSEMBLY WITH TRIM PUMP,TRIM RAMS,INNER BRACKET AND EXHAUST PIPE), but it has a different ratio. Is it worth it/possible to swap gears? It's off a 1978 CV16 GLASTRON

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280483415950&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I've read that you need to put the drive in forward before removing, is that true? If so, since my cable to the shift bracket is frozen, is that a push or pull on the cable?

Thanks for all the info!