165 I6 miss

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
I've got a 79 165 inline 6 cylinder that has developed a popping sound at throttle. Sounds like it is backfiring thru the carb... A bit of history:

I bought the motor and out drive in a 79 Marquis with bad transom as a donor for my 69 Sea Ray 185. Motor and out drive both ran great in the Marquis on test runs. Small issue with transition from idle to throttle but nothing major.

Moved motor over to new boat, new lower shift cable while it was apart. First test run showed the transition issue to be a bit more pronounced but again, no real issue if you worked the throttle a bit. After around 30 min. of moderate to fast (tops out at 34 MPH, I was hoping for a bit more) cruising motor developed this noise described at full throttle only, cruise at 1/2 throttle or so was good back to the dock (5 min. or so).
Asked about a bit and came up with the possibility of leak in intake causing lean (explained the transition issue as well). New intake gasket, checked point gap, dwell, new plug wires and it seemed to be running much better on muffs. On the lake this weekend and the popping seems worse, starting about 1/4 throttle. transition to throttle seemed a bit better at first but deteriorated as I tried retarding timing a bit to see if that helped (no luck, stayed the same no matter the timing).
Back at home and installed new points, condenser, distributor, rotor button, and coil. Still has issue... If throttle is advanced quickly at the carb motor will make popping thru carb sound, same as on the lake.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks,
 

dirtyoldman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
359
Re: 165 I6 miss

I wonder if you don't have a burned valve. Have you checked the compression?
 

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
Re: 165 I6 miss

Compression test interrupted by dinner but pulling plugs reveled that the #5&6 plugs are bone white while the 3&4 are brown and the 1&2 are tan. I've noticed that you could pull the #6 plug wire at idle with no real change to speed or roughness. Looking into carb while pumping throttle you can see a steady and matching stream of gas from the pump as you advance as well as fuel coming from both of the rings in the middle of the barrel.

Thoughts?
 

Fishermark

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
5,617
Re: 165 I6 miss

Thoughts?

A few...

First - finish your compression test and post the results.

Second - the clean plugs sound like they have been steam cleaned - as in: water getting into the cylinders.

Third - the fact that there was no change when pulling #6 says either no compression, or plug no firing. Bad wire - bad plug - bad connection.
 

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
Re: 165 I6 miss

Compression starting on #1:

135,142,138,140,140,143

Cold engine but run today...

Could the clean plugs indicate intake allowing water into the last two cylinders? Would this cause the last 2 cylinders to to run lean enough create the problems I'm seeing?
 

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
Re: 165 I6 miss

A few...

First - finish your compression test and post the results.

Second - the clean plugs sound like they have been steam cleaned - as in: water getting into the cylinders.

Third - the fact that there was no change when pulling #6 says either no compression, or plug no firing. Bad wire - bad plug - bad connection.

I agree about the clean plugs, seems there is water in those cylinders.

Pulling that last plug with no real change was reason for new wires (sierra heavy marine wires). After the last run at the lake all ignition components were replaced. I'm thinking fuel delivery problem. Carb seems to be pumping the same amount of fuel into both sides.


Thanks,
 

dirtyoldman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
359
Re: 165 I6 miss

The clean plugs are a concern, but I don't think that there is enough water getting in there to make it miss. If there were, you wouldn't have good compression. I would investigate the secondary ignition system to see if there are any problems there.

I have heard of six cylinder engines that ran leaner on the cylinders farther away from the carburetor, and required different plugs in the different locations. I don't think that is what is happening here, but your post made me think of it.
 

kilowatts

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
299
Re: 165 I6 miss

Hi Guys:

I hesitate to post a reply to any kind of mechanical thread as I am by no means a talented marine mechanic but I have rebuilt 3 MCM 165 motors in the last year. In one of them I had the same problem and solved it by rebuilding the carb. It was dirty and starved the engine of fuel. After a rebuild the problem went away.

kilowatts
 
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