First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

[BrandonHa]

Howdy!

I dont even know where to begin. Perhaps this should occupy a few different threads, I dont know. I will give it a shot and then ya'll maybe could direct me whatever direction is best.

I have a 1990 Sunbird, I believe it is 17.5ft and a center console with a johnson 90hp outboard. I dont know what model it is. Thats one of my questions. I will post a picture or two so hopefully that will shed some light.

The previous owner put a 28 gallon tank in it and I have to say he did a very poor job. The boat has always been heavy and I REALLY like the construction of it. Its a rock solid boat. But as it turns out, from the center console back is water logged. Not to mention this gas tank that runs from the console almost to the steern. The gas tank is 49" inches long.

I tore one section of the floor out today over the gas tank. This thing has so much water in it, that its actually going up the gunnels. We are cutting in to the floor now to pull the water logged foam and replace it with something new.

What would the standard gas tank be on a 1990 17.5 center console sunbird? This 28 gallon tank is just way to big. Not to mention the job that the previous own did installing it.

Hmmm... Trying to sum this up. I am cutting the deck out and replacing the foam. And now that I discovered this gas tank size / problem I will be replacing that tank as well.

Its filled horribly with water, this next picture is the gas tank job the last guy did. This tank is coming out well you can see what I mean from looking at this next one

So now I gotta replace a gas tank as well as replacing all of the water logged foam out. So can anyone point me in the right direction? I know I did not spell this out to well. Basicaly, i just need to gut it. But I want to know make / model and what is stock fuel tank?

 

[mlrman]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Hi,

I am also a new Sunbird boat owner, my first boat, first post w/ pics here:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=403659

I have an original Sunbird brochure from 1991 and I know your boat is a 1990, but it looks to me like it's a Seacore 173. Specs from the brochure for that 1991 model are: 17 ft length, 6 ft 10 in, and Johnson OB 60,70, or 90 HP with a 29 gal fuel tank.

Do you have any more pics of your boat?

You've got some work cut out for you, and don't expect to be buying any OEM parts for the boat itself. Be creative and persistant and you will end up with a fun boat. It's always cool to start with a project like yours and end up with awesome before and after pics!!

Good luck!

 

[tnduc]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

I've got a 1991 Sunbird SeaCore 173 that has been in my family since new, and it looks identical to the one in your picture. It also occasionally gets water in the bilge, I just get a hand pump and pump it out. For specific construction questions (foam replacement, tank replacement) you should post in the general forum where you will get many more responses.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Thanks for the knowledge! We have been taking pictures as we go. Its very interesting how the foam was put in. Also very interesting to see what went wrong and why it filled with water.

We got the fiberglass cut off on the port side from about the center console back to the stern. I have not got the starboard side cut out yet but it looks like there is not much foam on that side compared to the port.

About the oem parts, I am going to step way out of the box when we put it back together. I am thinking a live well, maybe an actual bilge pump so this does not happen again and some in deck storage. Oh and back to a smaller tank instead of that 28 gallon tank. I have the 28 gallon on Craigslist for sale but nobody interested yet.

I will post some more pics later this evening or tomorrow. Hopefully someday if someone else wants to undergo this with their Sunbird it will help them out a bit

 

[seayawl]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Welcome to the group. Your boat looks good on the outside. It is a shame former owner messed up the new fuel tank. Make sure that you have everything dried very well before you close up the floor. Also seek out info on how other center consol boats are fitted out. Compare thier specs to your boat and use that info as a guide. A Sunbird thats worth saving is a Sunbird that should be save properly. Good luck with your project. John

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Sorry I am slacking on the updates. We have been working on the boat everyday and taking several photo's as we go along. I went as far as cropping and shrinking them for this thread and there they sit

I have found some strange things. Like the conduit that runs below deck from the center console to the stern is pvc sewer pipe. It was already broken in several different pieces before we got there though. The pipe is very cheap and I am amazed that its factory. Maybe I am wrong though and someone was here before me? I got pictures of it though so I can post them for others to see.

Everyday I am learning more and more. iboats is a HUGE resource! Most everytime I google something the answer is in a thread here at iboats. I am 36 years old and been on the water since I could walk. I work on websites (I am sparing ya'll the life story.. lol) for a living and it was not until we decided to redo our boat that I found iboats.

I have always wanted to build a car from the ground up but I have pretty much zero skills as a mechanic so its never really been a reality. Well now I get to rebuild our boat with my dad and its very enjoyable. The best part is that we can make our boat exactly how we want it and not have to deal with someone else's crappy work. Going slow but steady, everyday we work on it for atleast 2 hours. Well we went walleye fishing a couple days ago, so with the exception of that its everyday..

More to come from me and my project. I really appreciate the warm welcome and the advice. I am very excited to keep going and fixing while throwing in a bit of fabricating. Fun!

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

From day 1 it had a heck of a time getting out of the hole. Not being overly familiar with the boat or engine I just always assumed it was a bit of a slug. When I got out of the hole it would do 32 with just me in it though. That was faster then I really needed to go. 32 was wide open on a glassy lake and not counting the 5 minutes it took me to get out of that huge hole. The pitch of the prop is 22 and the mechanic said we should consider a 19 inch pitch. None of us had any idea at that point how much water was actually in it.

We are lucky enough to live in NE Washington state a few minutes from Lake Roosevelt. We get our fair share of snow and cold weather in the winter but not a heck of a lot of rain in the summer. I guess my reason for saying that is prior to us getting the boat here it had sat over a year uncovered in the greater Seattle area. It was FULL of water

I love this Boat, its a great rig for Walleye fishing and is really only going to get better with our remodel. I gotta tell you though, The Sunbird SeaCore handles rough water very nice!

So here is a picture of the boat when she was tied up to the doc last year. That 16 horse was WAY to much. You can kind of see in the picture how she was sitting to the port. That was mostly because of that 16 horse. When we were running on a plane though it listed to the port without the kicker.

This picture is my dad fishing around in that center tub for a drain plug that we later found out did not exist Take note on how much water is in there.

This is the picture just after we removed the gas tank. We have worked on it everyday but very slow. I think we have put a couple hours in daily but neither my dad nor I have any experience with anything like this so its been a slow process but a FUN one!

Here is the Moeller 29 gallon tank that was in it. If any other SeaCore owners are wondering, it fit like a glove but at 49" inches long it took up most all of that center tub. Its still sitting in my driveway if anyone is interested

At this current moment the entire deck is out of the boat and she is looking pretty naked. I have tons of pictures but need to crop them and figure I should keep the pictures coming in some kind of order so there will be more to come.

More to come

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Was thinking it would keep me motivated if I posted what our goals were with this remodel.

For us its a bit challenging. We live a pretty rural lifestyle. If we want to buy lets say some woven roven (thats just an example). Its a 1.5 hour drive to get it and that is 1 way. So its a lot of buying online and planning our trips to Spokane carefully.

I dont know what to call it. I cant say we are giving it a total restore but its not really a small project either. I am going with remodel unless someone else has another term?

1. Livewell. Its looking like it will be 25" width x 25" Length and about 8" deep. It could possibly get longer then that. Our tournament rules are a minimum of 30" from corner to corner and atleast 20 gallons. We dont have a lot of depth so we have to increase the length and that will obviously increase the corner to corner measurements. The rules also state that there has to be a functional fill with overflow. An aerator and a backup aerator.

2. Freshwater washdown. Will more then likely use the same pump that we are using for the fill on the livewell. Not sure yet where the pump is going to live but it will be a thru hull. More then likely with a seacock.

3. 3 Optima Blue tops below deck in the bow. A 24volt system for the bow mount (Dont own a bow mount at this point but its on the long term list) and the 3rd Blue Top for cranking. This one is still being decided on how exactly we can work it. I gotta do some posting and ask questions about the glassing. Its important to us to be able to lift parts of the deck out to access the batteries, pumps, etc... But at the same time making it water proof. Its going to be quite the learning experience

4. Built in charger for the batteries. I dont want to climb in there nightly and hook up a battery charger. This is more of a convenience then a necessity. I really dont want to put it all back together and have regrets about not doing something. I would rather wait an extra couple weeks for a pay day then have regrets. But if I do it now while its all torn apart then I hope I can keep the regrets to a minimum. If that makes sense

EDIT: I dont think I used the right terminology here. By built in charger I mean so I can just plug in 1 cord thats already wired to the 3 batteries. Found exactly what I was looking for at West Marine yesterday. Will be purchasing it on Tuesday.

5. Coduit pulling to the bow so running the wires for the bow mount that I dont own yet will be easier to wire. There is existing conduit in the starboard side at the top. Its not something that you can easily reach and we are not going as far as removing the gunnels. Currently it just has the wire from the port / starboard lights in it. I will be abandoning this coduit and putting our own in.

6. Conduit to the port and starboard side in the stern for electric downriggers. I really dont have any plans of electric downriggers in the near future because we really dont need them for Walleye fishing but I should put something in while I have it torn apart so I have the option some day.

Here is part of the conduit. It was splintered prior to us removing it from the deck. Matter of fact it was totally full of water up to elbow where it goes in to to the console!

Sewer pipe! Gurrrrrrrrrrr! Is this normal?

7. In deck storage. I learned that storage on these Seacore boats were not really maximized to their potential and I think I am being politicly correct with that statement. I am avoiding saying that the storage options sucked . The port side will get in deck storage for sure. The Starboard side has that big conduit running from console to stern. It may get in deck storage, just not sure how to work that one yet.

8. Built in below deck gas tank for the kicker. 5 or 6 gallons more then likely. Finding one of these has been challenging though. Lucky for us this is the internet and research seems to be endless. I will find something

9. Lighting. This is not critical but am hoping it will just be a nice touch and something thats pretty cheap and easy to do while she is torn apart. We bought some LED lights to go in the gunnel's yesterday at West Marine. Hoping to put 6 of these in. 4 from the console back to stern and 2 of them forward of the console. Not sure if the ones we bought last night will be bright enough but they do flush mount and are LED's. Will test them this evening in total dark to see.

10. A decent panel for the console. Ours is plain jane. I dont know what other Seacore's center consoles look like. Ours has squat for options and addons. Will be removing the current panel and replacing with something that allows me to add more switches for the options we are adding.

11. GAUGES. We dont even have a temperature gauge at this point. Its going to get a Lowrance water flow gauge on the Johnson (I think, remember I am not a mechanic.. haha). 2 Lowrance fuel flow sensors for the small tank and the main tank. The only guage we have is a gas gauge. From what I understand the motor has to be 95 or new to really support NMEA however with the fuel flow and water flow gauges it wont matter. Should plug right in to my HDS 7.

12. Music, Sirius (Did I spell that right?) The Satellite radio anyway. We are already paying for it and dont even have a radio. This is an option my dad is obsessing over I say that because he has been reading this thread and I gotta give him a hard time about it

So I am hoping to do all of this and put it in the water lighter then when she came out. There are things that I am still confused about but I spend my evenings reading and learning. Oh and youtube is a great resource for how to videos.

Happy boating and I will update more as I can. I hope this helps a Sunbird owner someday. If I can do this, anyone can!

 

[tnduc]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Enjoying the rebuild posts- keep 'em coming!

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

I cant remember if I put it in the post or not. The deck has been all the way out for probably a week now.

I am second guessing my decision to cut the deck out instead of lifting the cap. I am still thinking I made the right decision but have been wondering if I should of done it the other way.

Really though, I had no idea that we would be so far in to it. I figured cut a few holes, scrape some foam and replace. Haha! I should of known better

Cant forget this picture! My dad and I were sitting in the boat trying to figure out what to do next and the dog decided to join us. It must be 5ft from the ground over the side. He cleared it. Funny

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Made the 2 hour trip to the city yesterday. I think thats what makes it take so long for me. The things we need are not readily available around here. If I bought it all at once I have no doubt I would screw something up. So one thing at a time for me.

Found a great deal on some cloth from a fella on Craigslist. You should of seen his project! All I could say when I saw it was "Wow"

http://spokane.craigslist.org/boa/1800426066.html

Now ya'll cant go buying the rest of it until I get enough to finish my boat

Yesterday we were planning on buying a bunch of small stuff for the boat. New wiring, lighting, some sort of conduit and the onboard charger. We stopped and bought the cloth first. Ended up talking with him for a couple hours. Talk about a great guy!! He spent the entire time explaining to me how and what to do. Oh and gave me the part # for a gun I could spray gel coat with at Harbor Freight.

Left his place and headed to Harbor Frieght for that spray gun. Have not tried it yet.

http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-hvlp-spray-gun-kit-93305.html

Then headed to Cabelas to look at onboard chargers. As it ended up, we left there with nothing in hand. Went over to West Marine and bought a few lights and another bottle of pva. We decided that we would buy the rest of the cloth for the boat and hold off on the gadgets until the big job was done.

Got home yesterday and was standing outside of the boat looking toward the stern. Decided I was going to crawl in there (no deck, gotta go slow) on my back and look up inside towards the transom.

First. This boat has 4 drain plugs. I believe the one that is the well the outboard sits in is factory (Thats just a guess, but seems normal). BUT... There are 3 more drain plugs in the stern. You can see the picture. I am about positive these plugs were not factory. With the foam filled boat there was no place for water to drain and the person that owned this boat before us somehow managed to fill it with water and their solution was to drill 3 holes. OHH.... I should mention they forgot to seal them since they drilled in to the thickest parts of the transom.

Not good news! I should of looked much closer a week ago because as it was my brief inspection of the stern a week ago failed to see the ROT. Grrr!

I been saying that I spend a couple hours a day working on the boat but in reality its probably more like 4 or 5 hours a day. But much of it is spent learning and thinking.

Today I started work on a plug to make a mold to make the live well, because of the odd shape I cant find one already made that would work. But its all in good fun and I am really enjoying it. Trying to get my mind off of the transom for the moment. I need a clear head to figure out what to do.

All of this is totally new to me like I was saying. So in the end when its done I hope someone like me can read it and be inspired to do their own. So far my best advice is go slow and take your time.

Spent an hour today with the tape measure trying to figure out how the new gas tanks should go. Still not sure.

Still trying to figure out what to do about the transom. I know I will be replacing it. Just not sure if I will be seeking professional help or attempting it on my own. I am leaning towards on my on, thats half the fun isn't it? lol, I guess that could be debated.

 

[tnduc]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

I'd say those two holes are not stock, either. My boat is identical to yours, and it only has the scuppers and the one drain hole from the splashwell behind the motor. Those new holes could be the cause of the water intrusion.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Hey tnduc, do you have any pictures of your Seacore?

Would love to see what yours looks like. I found a picture of one that did not have the 3 extra holes in the transom. Looked nice.

I am still working on my livewell. Making progress though!

 

[tnduc]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

I'll get some pictures taken this weekend and post them.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Quick update. Still working on my livewell. I screwed it up pretty bad. What a learning experience this has been.

My intentions with making this were to make a mold and then of course make my tank off of the mold. I screwed up a few things. Thankfully I am learning on a small tank and not the deck of my boat!

I made this tank

Using the tub that held the gas tank as a sort of plug. Pretty much everything revolves around that tub. It seems to be the center piece for everything when it goes back together. Oh and this is one of my boys demonstrating his safety skills

Then my plan was to take this mold that I made and make the finished product with it. This picture below is my mold. I had plans of course using the gel coated side to make my finished product. Wrong.. Not only did I mess up with the actual construction of it, I screwed up the dimensions. If I would of used the mold in the picture below the finished product would not of fit back in to the tub. I thought I had it all planned out perfect. That black stuff you see on the corner of it is just some laminate that I used. The gel coat came out just fine. Unfortunately for me, I messed up the size. Oh well, its nothing to major and quite the learning experience.

So the picture above. That of course fits perfect in the tub, so I thought I would just use it as my product and skip the mold part. I mean its just a one part pull, so why go through all the trouble of making the perfect mold?

I kind of flip flopped back and forth. Use it for a mold or use it for the finished product? Decided that I would use it for a mold. Also decided that the sharp corners were not going to work and the flange is a bit crooked. Went down to walmart and bought a gallon of "Light body filler". I think that is aka "bondo". We cut 4 small pieces of 1/2" plywood and put them in the corners. Used the filler to help round out the corners.

This is what it did look like before the filler and the round corners.

Tomorrow if the weather permits I will finish rounding the corners and a LOT of sanding then will post a picture of the mold where it is at now. Currently its to ugly to take a picture of.

I have to figure out the correct way to pull the motor off without damaging it. I gotta make a post under the correct topic and get some advice on that. My neighbor is going to come down with his tractor and lift it off for me. Just have to figure out the correct way of putting a chain or strap on it without damaging it. There is no hooks under the hood of the motor. Soon as I do that, I can put the livewell on hold and start on the transom

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Moved for you! Please re-size the pictures to 640 x 480

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Moved for you! Please re-size the pictures to 640 x 480

Thank you Bob! I resized them and I am pretty sure I got most all of em.

Gotta go get my boat fixin fix!

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

Having some troubles with popping the cap in the stern.

I dont know if all foam filled boats are completely different when removing the cap compared to a boat with stringers?

I have 2 boards screwed in the stern on the outside and a strap around the whole boat on the inside holding it in place.

You can see the 2 cuts I put in it. The cut that is closer to the camera did not start out that wide. Thats after me poking and trying to get the cap to pop off.

In this picture I have it in red as "light blue" but its actually a very light green. My kids pointed that out to me a minute ago. So excuse the color blindness What is this stuff? I got in there with the grinder and got a good portion of it out but cant quite reach it all with the 4" grinder.

Now this next picture is me laying down and taking a picture up towards the inside of the splash well. It appears that the splash well is pretty much stuck to the transom with this light green substance on the inside. From what I read the splash wells are not usually connected to the inner transom like that. Maybe I am totally wrong and this stuff is just filling a void and not actually keeping the cap from popping off?

Here is another picture of it up close.

What am I missing here? As you can see from that first cut that is closer to the camera I did get it to move a hair but that was after putting a lot more pressure on it then I was comfortable with. I wish I would of taken the entire cap off in the beginning but I had no idea it was going to go this far.

Do I need to put a couple more cuts in it and make it smaller pieces?

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: First post, New owner to Sunbird. Lots of questions

I cut the cap in to a few sections and still can't budge the splash well. Took off a section on port and starboard side. Even the small 24"(sh) pieces were a bugger to pry off.

Found a lot of water on the inside top of the gunnels (both sides). I am trying my best to avoid multiple cuts in the cap but at this point its not looking to promising.

Any ideas?