Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

rbh

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Mar 21, 2009
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

How do you put a hole in the hull and keep the boat from sinking or motor from flooding?????
same way as a drive keeps the water from coming up it, would that be a quasey bell jar effect?????

Oh and variable pitch, think about a snowmobile clutch.
 
Joined
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

Haulnazz14- To be honestly I had started on a design for a varaible pitch prop a long time ago when I was younger....untill I found out someone had a patent for the idea already (dont you hate it when that happens haha). Anyhow there is one company I have head decent things about....however their prop is $2k...perhaps thats why they are not real popular?
http://www.aerostarmarine.com/ppp.html
(and no I am not affilated with them or anything)

rbh- Honestly I am not sure what mechanism boats use, as I mentioned previously I am not real familiar with them aside from driving/riding in them haha but I know its doable to keep water from getting back in the boat and thats what matters :). I am not familiar with a snowmobile clutch, however a CVT transmission might be a interesting addition to a boat (especially if coupled with a variable pitch prop).
 

smokintoad

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
44
Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

It is easy to build a fast boat. Find a really light hull with minimal dead rise and then throw in the largest engine you can find. Will it be safe? Probably not. You should look up Chine-walking. When you are talking about exceeding the design limits of a hull, you are really looking for trouble.

We have a guy on our lake with a very old Penn Yan. Somehow the guy put a 4 speed automatic transmission in the boat. As he goes by it?s so bizarre to hear in shift gears. I have had many people say a transmission like that would NEVER work in a boat because it is always under load. Twice a weekend from April till October he proves them wrong.
 

Philster

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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

Head over to the prop forum and you'll get the attention needed.

I believe you can keep it simple and just get a 4-blade SS prop of the same pitch/size as you current prop, and at your current, decently-high RPM just take the RPM hit. More blades = more bite, but that becomes meaningful resistance at high speed, so the top end takes a little hit.

Cupping on props already exists. Cupping providing a measure of camber to the blade, it changes the pressure distribution along the blade?s chord length ?adding lift toward the trailing edge. Lift is good.

Most modern props for stern-drives incorporate cupping.

pcup.gif
 
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

Smokintoad- Safety is important, not looking to make this boat go 100 mph, just a little more then half that haha. Any chance that guy with the 4 speed boat did a write up on a forum, i'd love to look that over! I had at one point considering finding a way to put a 4g63t (turbo 4 cylinder, 2.0 L about 250 hp) into a boat....and still might one day, but I think that might be a little beyond my current skill set with boats haha.
 
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

Philster- I will hop over that forum and see what kind of response I can get on suggested props, thanks for the advice and responses they have been insightful!
 

45Auto

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May 31, 2002
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

It all comes down to cubic dollars.

"How fast do you want to spend"?

Give us some idea of what kind of budget you're talking about and maybe you'll get some relevent ideas.

The only real improvement you're going to find that will help you improve low end while keeping the same top end (besides forced induction) is a variable pitch prop. A CVT would help a little, but the prop slip when you accelerate almost duplicates that now. Watch the tach when you hammer the throttle from a standstill. On most boats it will wind up to the 3000-4000 RPM range before slowly dropping down then starting to climb again as the prop hooks up. The addition of a CVT isn't worth the hassle. A CVT would gain you maybe 10-20% in low end performance. It's much cheaper and less complicated just to get a boat with a V6 in it to get better performance.

A transmission would do the same thing. The racing ski boats commonly use automotive automatic transmissions to allow them to accelerate hard but still run over 100 MPH. Again, how much do you want to spend? All the stuff you're talking about is already out there. They had a drop-in 2-speed transmissions for the Volvo's a couple of years ago:

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/Marine-Transmission-has-automatic-gearbox-design-461275

There have been lots of variable pitch props on the market. You'll find that Strength and Price are generally engineering opposites. The cheap variable pitch props blew apart easily and consequently went out of business, while the ones well-engineered and well-built enough to stand up to the environment aren't cheap.

Another theory question, is it worth it at all to consider dual props (counter rotating or not)?

Not on a 3.0L. Not enough torque down low that you have to worry about hooking it up. Dual props (Mercruiser Bravo III and Volvo-Penta Duo Prop) have been around for over 20 years and are very common on bigger motors. It's been pretty well established that they improve low speed handling tremendously, help a little with acceleration (maybe 10% to 20% faster), and cost you a couple of MPH on top speed.
 
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

45Auto- the budget is not clearly defined but is based on the gains that might be had....for instance i'd assume he'd like to spend well under $2k if the gains are going to be minimal.....however if the gains were substanital all around then $2k might be about the limit...perhaps a little more. I know that is not a clear cut answer but ideally i'd like to have two or three diffeerent options and then let him decide which is the best value to him. Again I am still learning about boats and their performance, but the situation you talk about with the props acting like a CVT already is that due to ventillation in the prop also or just prop slip? In your opinion how does the aerostar prop compare to other variable pitch props and are they worth the hassle at that investment? At what point (horsepower/boat size) would a dual prop be a worthy investment?(not for this boat...just for future reference)
 

tmh

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 16, 2006
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1,136
Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

Many here have been down the same road...trying to get more performance out of the boat without spending too much. Tough to do, as all have said.

I'll take a shot at the Smart Tabs you mentioned as I have them and have used them for 3 years (older version I think). They advertise better hole shot and even better top end. Well, the better hole shot is true as they pop you up on plane faster so less drag, Better top end??? Tough to say. However, if you figure the tabs do help on the low end then maybe you can have your prop more geared for the high end and get better top end. A 3 blade SS with the tabs should be a great fit, 4-blade as was said will help more on low end but slightly less speed.

Go on a diet, bring no gear, get rid of your friends, remove all the seats, etc. .. could add 2-3mph!
 

45Auto

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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

In your opinion how does the aerostar prop compare to other variable pitch props and are they worth the hassle at that investment?

All the tests with real data I've seen on them show about a half-second improvement in 0-30 MPH times with identical top speeds as compared to conventional props. The tests with just write-ups (no data) all say they're great. You'll have to decide how much a half-second is worth to you.

At what point (horsepower/boat size) would a dual prop be a worthy investment?

They're unknown on I4's, relatively rare on V6's, fairly common on V8's. I wouldn't pay extra for a V6 with one, but I love mine on my V8. A 19'-20' boat with a V8 (250HP or so) would probably be about where it would become worth thinking about.

however if the gains were substanital all around then $2k might be about the limit

Your buddy does realize that he's talking about putting $2K he'll never see when he sells the boat into a boat that's worth what, maybe $4K-$5K?

If he's really interested in more performance, best thing he could do is sell his boat, put the additional $2K along with whatever he gets for selling it, and buy a higher performance boat with a bigger motor.

He'll never come close to something like this no matter how much he puts into it:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/1846499224.html
 
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

45Auto- He got the boat for a good deal (partial trade) which is why if $2000 made a huge difference I think he'd go for it, although from the sound of it, as you said, it wouldnt be worth it especially when he was ready to sell and upgrade. The boat you posted a link about, how fast do those generally run?
 

haulnazz15

Captain
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Mar 9, 2009
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3,720
Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

I think the CVT and Centrifugal clutch's are a bit too complicated. On aircraft, the prop pitch is actuated simply by oil pressure. A lever on the dash can be pushed/pulled to adjust the prop pitch to desired amount. This of course can be automatically controlled for use in the boats. No reason to deal with clutches and belts like CVT's have. I'm sure if the pitch change can be extreme enough, it could shave off a second or so on the 0-30 and still give you excellent speed/fuel economy on the top end.

Either way, not worth messing with in your case.
 
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

haulnazz15- Thank you for the insight on the airplane prop actuation, that might come in handy in the future....although I doubt on this boat haha.
 

v8srslo

Recruit
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May 28, 2011
Messages
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Re: Newb looking for a crash course in performance for a scarab sprint

fast for cheap! alpha drive gear set for v8 $300, chevy lm7 or l59 $500 with harness and ecu, other parts need are small block bell housing and drive connector just get a used one from marine salvage . crusader manifolds for LS $500 new, LS marine starter $100 new, make a bracket to use the alternator you have, use aluminum plates with barb fittings in place of the water pump. for around $1500 you could do 65-70 real mph. is it safe yes i get zero chine walk in the 70mph range on my scarab sprint powered by a 454merc

about running the exhaust through the hull. turbine powered race boats do it all the time they have to put air under there and in front of the prop so they can rev up the turbines because they make almost no power down low
 
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