why bad reputation

[jhaley59]

New owner of 85 trophy with twin force 125's. Don't understand the bad reputation. I have owned other brands, but the force's seem to be the easiest to work on and well built. Problems with the motors are common to any outboard 25yrs old. You may have to look, but parts are readily available and no more expensive than other brands. It cost about 500 dollars so far to get engines in top shape, still have one cylinder with lower compression, the others spec out great. Every one I talked to said I should scrap the motors and was crazy for spending money on them. The forces seem like a bargain compared to other brands, so why are they hated by so many in the boating community.

 

[ezimmerm]

Re: why bad reputation

Frankly their very simple engines and at their current age require more maintenance then any new motor and I've spent a fair amount of time wrenching on this thing. However I think the bad rep they've gotten is undeserved, like anything else basic maintenace keeps them running.

I've had family and friends tell me that it was a mistake to buy it, I just smile when I'm out on the river using the boat.

I'd rather spend a couple of hours and a couple of bucks per year keeping this running then having to spend 10k on a new 150. As long as this pushes my boat, not sure why I'd need to spend the money on a new one.

 

[Leardriver]

Re: why bad reputation

There are 2 reasons, one deserved and one not.

In the 80's, Bayliner started packaging together boat, motor, and trailer combos that were super affordable, and they sold a whole lot of boats to people who probably couldn't otherwise afford to be boating. They really took over the lower end market, 15-19 foot boats.

The other dealers who were used to being at the top of the heap were caught off guard and their sales were suffering as a result of Bayliner's domination. So, there was a whole lot of bad-mouthing going on, a lot of whispering about horrible quality and unreliability. Although not really true, the tactic was successful.

Also, Bayliner build quality, while allowing a lot of people to have great family fun on the water, was indeed a little more flimsy that most. The boats didn't break in half when you hit a wave, but you could tell that you were in a lower end vessel.

On to the motors. I bought one of those 16 foot bayliners with the 85 hp outboard. There are millions of them out there. My boat ran flawlessly for 8 years, did exactly what it was supposed to do, and all of the ones that I was around did the same thing. In a world where you get what you pay for, you actually got more than you paid for with a Force engine.

Perception is reality, and in a world where people try to sell a Lexus at a high price, they sometimes have to bad mouth a Chevrolet. I wouldn't shy away from a Force engine or a Bayliner boat if it was in good condition and fit your budget.

 

[Dave K.]

Re: why bad reputation

a couple of guys on here can be very specific as to why the bad reputation. All, including me will tell you this bad rep is Undeserved!

if taken care of, these motors will last a long time & are cheap to maintain.

can't say much on the boat but mine has served me well.

Leardriver comes pretty close to a couple reasons but their are other reasons too..again, Not Deserved!

do a search, plenty of info there!

 

[jhaley59]

Re: why bad reputation

I think the force 125's are worth maintaining, I wouldn't say that for other brands. I would thank twice before even working on a 10 year old Yamaha and you can forget the 4 cycles. Its not the parts that kill on old outboards its the labor and specialized gear. I have found the forces to be straight forward with any average Saturday mechanic being able maintain/repair with your standard tool box. I'm running some sea foam through the motors now to see if I can bring up low compression in the one cylinder if not I will not think twice about rebuilding the power head this winter and still have less than a grand in each motor, I couldn't say that for other brands. So far my five hundred has bought a rectifier, stator and trigger, carb kits with floats for motor one, and lower unit gasket/seal set for motor two. Saved a bundle by shopping and buying a lot of NOS parts. Have not had to go used parts yet, but I seen a ton on ebay and everywhere else. My next purchase will probably buy a parts engine just to have. If I can get another 6 or 8 years out of my investment Ill be very happy.

 

[geeco1]

Re: why bad reputation

Often times, I think that the "bad rap" comes from people who do not have any experience with that model of engine. I fell into that category. I have only owned 2 boats, my first had a 50hp merc, my current has a Force. I have always heard to stay away from Force, but I bought the boat anyway. It has already given me several hours of trouble free use. It currently is having a little trouble in staying running at WOT, but nothing that I haven't been able to work on.

Most people think that what they have is the best. That's why you will always have Chevy, Dodge, and Ford loyalist. If you have always driven a Ford and it has given you good service, then by-all-means it must be the best, correct The Dodge and Chevy guy feels the same.

I will say, I like the sound that a Merc makes over the Force

 

[byacey]

Re: why bad reputation

I have a West Bend 45HP made in 1965, just before Chrysler bought them out. Three years ago I paid $40 for the motor as it was scheduled for the scrap metal dealer because someone ran the lower unit in the water with bad seals until the gears and bearings were worn out.

Upon arriving home, a quick compression test showed 125 and 129 on the cylinders. Points needed cleaning and gapping. I bought a lower unit off a 1979 for $80.00, and I now had a real nice motor that has run flawlessly since. How's that for long term compatability, 1965 to 1979?
In fact, I'm usually on the water and gone while other guys are still trying to start their newer motors at the ramp.

They are a simple motor, easy to work on, many parts are available from jobbers like bearings, seals, points, etc. as these parts were commonly used in the auto industry as well, unlike other manufacturers who have specialised parts specific only to their product.

 

[jkust]

Re: why bad reputation

One of my Boats is a 1984 Bayliner Capri with an 85hp Force Engine. My folks bought it new in 1984 when I was 11. It has never, ever in all its years even once had a single issue of any kind. It has 100% original parts including the impeller with the exception of spark plugs. It still runs as well as the first day when we broke it in. We must have the only exceptional Force ever produced or maybe we just treated nicer than most. You can imagine if we still own a 1984 that was bought from the Boat Show and is still in pristine condition, cheap vinyl, wood floor and all, it might be the owners not the machine. We still even use lead additive as it was built in the leaded gas years. We have several older outboards too of various brands that have faired well also.

 

[Leardriver]

Re: why bad reputation

Those boats made a lot of people happy.
I bought my '83 model in '85 for $4700, and sold it many years later for $4200. I put an impeller in it twice. Lot's of great family memories on that little boat.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: why bad reputation

One of my Boats is a 1984 Bayliner Capri with an 85hp Force Engine. My folks bought it new in 1984 when I was 11. It has never, ever in all its years even once had a single issue of any kind. It has 100% original parts including the impeller with the exception of spark plugs. It still runs as well as the first day when we broke it in. We must have the only exceptional Force ever produced or maybe we just treated nicer than most.

...The results of this experience sound a lot like my boat and motor. We are into our 4th season on our 90' Bayliner and it's original 90hp Force. I still smile to myself when we have it out. It runs out great and it has never given me a problem or let me down. I have learned to keep the (simple) maintenance up on it...much of it thanks to the excellent advice and knowledge on this website.
People who paint the Force brand with a broad bad brush....well, I guess they are doing what the status quo does and might be better served by reading a bit more and listening a bit less.
My two bits.
BP

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: why bad reputation

88 bayliner 85 hp force im currently super happy with my boat.. and the engine has run terrific since i bought it ... it sat for 7 years i picked up the boat for 600 bucks, came home tore into it comp was good. clean the hell out of the boat and took it out on the bay it ran flawless. since then i just did maintannce fuel diaphram and check valves, plugs, telltail, t stat rebuilt carbs and tuned sync system and impeller... Other then still having a problem achieving full wide open throttle from the lync and sync procedure in the seloc manual mine has been great. Now as for the tilt/trim system. thats another story i wish force did a better job on this. parts arent cheap and its not very easy to get apart once the boats seen saltwater... bought a reseal kit and broke 4 bolts off now drilling and helicoiling holes... electric pump went 2 weeks ago.. and at 400 to replace im just waiting at this point

 

[surfsalterpath]

Re: why bad reputation

88 bayliner 85 hp force im currently super happy with my boat.. and the engine has run terrific since i bought it ... it sat for 7 years i picked up the boat for 600 bucks, came home tore into it comp was good. clean the hell out of the boat and took it out on the bay it ran flawless. since then i just did maintannce fuel diaphram and check valves, plugs, telltail, t stat rebuilt carbs and tuned sync system and impeller... Other then still having a problem achieving full wide open throttle from the lync and sync procedure in the seloc manual mine has been great. Now as for the tilt/trim system. thats another story i wish force did a better job on this. parts arent cheap and its not very easy to get apart once the boats seen saltwater... bought a reseal kit and broke 4 bolts off now drilling and helicoiling holes... electric pump went 2 weeks ago.. and at 400 to replace im just waiting at this point

we bought a 1996 24' brunswick spectrum pontoon w/ the 75hp force by mercury mariner. ~ 6 yrs ago. Fun boat but the tilt/trim is an issue. Replaced the pump ~2yrs ago Trying to repalece the tilt/trim cylinder ourselves and broke 1 bolt removing the lower brackets holding the cylinder clevis lower pin and have not figured how to remove the cylinder clevis upper pin yet. We did get the cotter pin removed. Yes, salt water. Any ideas? THANKS!!!

engine runs great so far.!!!!

 

[newforceowner]

Re: why bad reputation

I am so glad to read this thread. I just bought a 94 Maxum w/ a 70HP Force motor. I had never heard about Force motors before but the boat and motor were both in great shape so I thought "what the heck". The previous owner told me that it was a good boat for him as well but when he went to start it up this year, he was not getting water to circulate through the motor and was not mechanically inclined so he sold it. I thought that this could be a pretty easy fix and started do some research. Some say the water pump might have to be replaced and some say that the tube might just be cloged. Either way, it still sounds simple. Can anyone guide me in the right direction on this? I feel much better now after reading this link in my new purchase!

 

[further]

Re: why bad reputation

Sounds like the impeller needs changing. Read the sticky "step by step impeller change" at the top of this forum.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: why bad reputation

I've owned several older Chrysler outboards over the years, and a couple of Force motors. As a rule of thumb, their one of the easiest to work on, are rock solid motors if properly cared for, and parts aren't too big of a problem as of yet.
They may not make as much power as a comparable year OMC or Mercury, but they more than get the job done. Chrysler and Force were always an older design, they didn't make the constant changes that other brands did over the years, they seemed to build a solid motor and stuck with it. The later models seem to have some odd electrical issues and I must say I'm much fonder of any motor that uses a single plug hook up vs. loose wires, but that's only something you deal with during the initial install.

As far as reliability, I don't see them as being any different than any other 20 year old outboard.
I currently have a 1973 9.8hp, 1966 20hp, 1966 50hp, 1971 25hp, 1987 120hp, and most recently a 1989 15hp, plus many OMC and various Mercury outboards. My favorites are the older Chrysler motors, and 1980's era OMC motors but won't turn down a clean Force or newer Chrysler.

From a design or quality of design standpoint, I don't see them as being at all inferior to any other brand, maybe a bit dated in design but if we were to think like that, no one would every value vintage autos as much as we do either. I think most of the Chrysler and Force engines are pretty much just 1960's technology carried over as far as it would carry them, which in my opinion isn't a bad thing as it means a large period of parts interchangeability and proven and perfected designs.

 

[OldNBold51]

Re: why bad reputation

The only major thing I disliked about my previous 89 125 Force was the carburetor system. IMO, it sure would have been nice to have 1 bore per cylinder vs the 1 carb bore per 2 cylinders. This would have helped low speed operations/smoking as that's where I did most of my running. It ran great up top but smoked a lot while low speed.

 

[RRitt]

Re: why bad reputation

I think the real reason Force got a bad reputation is because Mercury did such a poor job of manufacturing them and needed somebody to blame. If Mercury engineers or dealers had ever admitted that most of the stuff breaking was their idea then people may have started asking questions about their ability to engineer anything in general. This was also the time frame when Mercury was building a reputation of being a very bad saltwater engine and a lot of people were saying that there were fundamental problems with their sterndrive cooling design. They were already dodging enough bullets when their reeds and stators starting failing on Force. It was easier and better for profits to blame Force than admit the truth. And so, Force became the whipping post for all of mercury's engineering inadequacies. Somewhere in shuffle it got lost that Chrysler Force was probably the best value ever built in outboard engines.