Hey Police Officers RANT

[deputydawg]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

At first glance, which by the way is what officers go by, would make him certain without doubt that you had no warrants? is there something special about you that says NO WARRANTS HERE?<br /><br />It is common practice and even policy in most places to check warrants on every contact. Ignorant people are amazed if they ever take time off of their high horses to see how many people wearing designer clothing, business suits, driving fancy expensive cars, have warrants. <br /><br />I really want to know what is so special I should look for so I KNOW who has and does not have warrants. <br /><br />If you or someone happens to be armed, or happens to be a flight risk what do you think they would do if the officer says he is checking for warrants? We never tell anyone we are checking them. <br /><br />What is underhanded about it? To me the polite way is to ask for ID, go to my car and check. No big deal. I will never run someone for warrants in front of them either. Most know when the response comes back on the radio that something is up. Then the fight or flight instinct comes in. <br /><br />What would you do if for example you saw someone on a traffic stop or talking to a cop. The cop did not check them for warrants. That person left that cop and smashed your window taking precious property from your vehicle, wallet purse stereo whatever. When he was caught you find he had a warrant for theft at that time and the officer did not run him? Could have saved you trouble. Now what if the cop made the excuse of well he didn't look like he had a warrant?<br /><br />I am open to options so that people will stop complaining about officers doing a very hard job that nobody else would touch. Give a better way to handdle this. <br /><br />If I am misunderstanding your complaint then I appologize. If I am not then help find a better way to do the job without offending, or with only offending the people that we are ALLOWED to offend. And the wisdom to know the difference at first glance.

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

I've been copping for a long time. I typed several replies to this thread but the diplomat in me hit the delete key each time. The only way I can reply without alienating at least some of you is to limit my comments. <br /><br />Bob:<br /><br />The Deputy has a good many reasons to collect your information. The most notable is that you can't make a report if you don't provide your information. Complain to your insurance company - there is no requirement to make such a report under state statute and their reporting requirement results in a great deal of wasted law enforcement resources. Beyond this, there are reasons the Deputy would have to call your name into dispatch. In most places dispatch logs your information in the call history - which creates the report you called to make in the first place. When dispatch does so they automatically run routine checks. Don't be so quick to take this personally.<br /><br />Mayfloat:<br /><br />I don't know if your local police are stuck in the 50s, but I can tell you that this is very unusual in this day and age. You should know that there is no centralized database available to law enforcement which attributes data to a social security number. Sure, the IRS has one, but those of us in law enforcement work with full name and date of birth. In fact, when working to identify an unknown suspect whose social security number is known we have to tap into public data websites.<br /><br />EF Henry:<br /><br />Actually you're mistaken although I'm sure it seems that way. While interacting with the police always cooperate and comply. Complain later if you believe you've been mistreated. If officers are acting outside of policy or violating your civil rights they will be disciplined. Your example of the traffic stop is just close enough to reality that it sounds plausible, but the devil is in the details. Supose the officer in your example calls a K-9 to work your vehicle. Unless there's been dope in there the dog won't indicate which means the officer doesn't have the authority to search the car. More importantly - why would the officer WANT to search your car if the dog didn't indicate on it. It isn't the free-for-all that you claim. See the comments I have for JB - some address your concerns as well. <br /><br />JB:<br /><br />I'm not sure what you believe is being "searched". You're correct, the police have to meet certain standards to conduct a search of your person or effects - but not to run a check for warrants, a driver's license, a previous criminal history, or many many other things. Essentially the constitution provides for limitations on government search of places or things where you have an expectation of privacy. Public records are not protected.<br /><br />In accepting a driver's license you agree to allow the goverment to maintain records relating to that license. In registering a vehicle you do the same thing. Even if at that moment in time you're not relying on that driver's license the government has that information and may check it as necessary.<br /><br />I'm something of a libertarian myself. The issue for me is that many who claim this interst know little if anything about the constitution, it's protections, and the limitations of those protections. I'm not suggesting that you don't know what you're talking about - but all too often self-proclaimed libertarians assert rights they don't actually have and do so with a condescending sense of superiority in spite of their own ignorance.<br /><br />Let me add that I'm not suggesting that you are among the ignorant who believe they know what they're talking about! I'm making a point about those who crow the loudest about their Libertarian views - not personally about you JB. <br /><br />18R:<br /><br />I can see your argument and have given it some thought. In doing so I don't find any constitutional protection making this procedure improper. Generally, the constitution imposes restrictions on goverment actions. Those limitations are strongest in your home and on your person. Your expectation of privacy is reduced when you choose to venture into public places. That isn't necessarily on-point with your issue, but it is related at least. <br /><br />Beyond this, law enforcement has been allowed to run warrant checks while having only routine contact with the public and this practice has survived numerous constitutional challenges.<br /><br />ZmOz:<br /><br />I have to disagree with your point as well. The freedoms we enjoy in this country aren't exceeded anywhere in the world. It's clear to me that as a society we pay a hefty price for those freedoms and no one ever seems to consider this in their criticism. Your assertion demonstrates that you're constitutionally ignorant and I mean no offense in this statement. The constitution affords you absolutely no protection from the suspicious mind of a police officer. Show me a cop who isn't inherently suspicious and I'll show you a guy who isn't a good cop. Your constitutional presumption of innocence is where the courts are concerned, not on the street where police work happens. <br /><br />All:<br /><br />In the course of my career I've learned that not only is it impossible to please everyone - it's impossible to please anyone.<br /><br />The public expects it's police officers to be kind, gentle, patient, understanding, courageous, in all places at once, and instantly available. They expect these same officers to be tough enough to take on the worst society has to offer and to never make a mistake even when making split-second decisions. We have to go from diplomat to soldier and all places between on a moment's notice and do so without error. <br /><br />The skillsets necessary to be competent let alone outstanding in this profession would result in a 6 figure income in the private sector yet even well-paid officers have to work overtime and part time jobs to afford the lifestyle of even a moderately successful used car salesman.<br /><br />Studies prove that our life expectancy is 7 years less than yours if you're an average person. These same studies show that we're many times more likely to become alcoholics, victims of suicide, divorced, physically and phychologically abusive, and distanced from our children, friends, and families as a result of these things.<br /><br />I'm not complaining - just pointing out the facts. Every job has it's upside and it's downside. I've come to learn that the downside of this job doesn't come from the crooks as you might expect. Instead it comes from the public and our own administrations and I find this inexcusable. This is not to say that we are above question. At the same time the public is generally very comfortable judging it's police officers without the benefit of any training or experience beyond what they see on T.V. cop shows. <br /><br />Like most cops I view my role in society as servant and protector. I see the law abiding public as my customer and the criminal as my opponent. I love my work and am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it - even though those who benefit most greatly show their appreication by using every opportunity to criticise and complain. How many of you would do this job?<br /><br />Again, we're not above question. What frustrates me most often is the public's predisposition to believe that we're WRONG. Some among us have earned this for the rest and I have to acknowledge that as fact. Are there those among you in your profession who conduct themselves improperly? Assuming there are - which is a fact in every profession - should you be treated as they would be merely because you share the same profession? <br /><br />There's something wrong when the crooks are a pleasant distraction from those who should appreciate our hard work the most.

 

[tommays]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

with insurance fraud at and all time high i wonder why they would want to corectly ID you ?<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

I'm just going to echo what Terry said, he pretty much summed up my mindset. It's sad as I am going through police academy, to even read threads such as this. Long before I chose this profession, I understood what law enforcement was about and what they needed to do to keep the general public safe. I am not deterred, because every drunk I get off of the road or every domestic violence situation I resolve will give me the satisfaction I need, even if my fellow citizens hate me and my process until they need me. It's still sad though. I think it would be a great idea if people went and read through their states code book, then they would see the reality of how it works, and not what TV tells them. Read that book, then think about all the crimes you committed that you didn't even realize you committed. That's an eye opener right there...

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

One point that was left out. <br /> We officers spend our lives in the worst 15 minutes of everyone elses lives. Once in a while that wears on a guy.<br /><br />Police Harassment defined.C/P<br /> <br />Recently, a California website ran an e-mail forum (a question and answer exchange) where the topic was "Policing the Community." <br />One of the civilian email participants posed the following question: <br />"I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to continually harass people and get away with it?" <br /><br />From the "other side" (the law enforcement side), a cool cop with a sense of humor replied: <br /><br />It is not easy. In California we average one cop for every 2,000 people. About 60% of those cops are on patrol, where we do most of the harassing. One-fifth of that 60% are on duty at any given moment and are available for harassing people. <br /><br />So, one cop is responsible for harassing about 10,000 residents. When you toss in the commercial, business and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible for harassing 20,000 or more people each day. <br /><br />A ten-hour shift runs 36,000 seconds. This gives a cop one second to harass a person, and three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND then find a new person to harass. <br /><br />This is not an easy task. Most cops are not up to it, day in and day out. <br /><br />It is just too tiring. What we do is utilize some tools to help us narrow down those people which we harass. They are as follows: <br /><br />PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on a person for special harassment. "My neighbor is beating his wife" is a code phrase we use. Then we come out and give special harassment. Another popular one on a weeknight is, "The kids next door are having a loud party." <br /><br />CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars blasting music, cars with expired registration stickers and the like. It is lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light. Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find they have drugs in the car, are driving drunk, or they have an outstanding warrant. <br /><br />RUNNERS: Some people take off running just at the sight of a police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a beagle on the scent of a bunny. When you catch them you can harass them for hours. <br /><br />CODES: When you can think of nothing else to do, there are books that give ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called "Codes" Penal, Vehicle, Health and Safety, Business and Professional Codes, to name a few. They spell out all sorts of things for which you can really mess with people. <br /><br />After you read the code, you can just drive around for a while until you find someone violating one of these listed offenses and harass them. Just last week I saw a guy smash a car window. Well, the code says that is not allowed. That meant I got permission to harass this guy. It is a pretty cool system that we have set up, and it works pretty well. <br /><br />We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we get away with it. Why? Because the good citizens who pay the tab actually like the fact that we keep the streets safe for them.

 

[QC]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Terry,<br /><br />Very well written and informative. Thanks.

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Thanks - but I really like Deputy Dawg's last addition. I've seen it before and it always makes me laugh. It's more fact than humor, which is why it's damn funny. <br /><br />One point I should have made is that it's not like there's a bonus for cops who work hard. In fact, there are inherent disincentives to work hard and incentives to just drive around and answer your calls. The public likes it that way - until they become a victim. Sadder yet, the bosses like it that way. We get very few complaints about officers not hitting it hard out there. Those who work hard generate compliants which requires the bosses to do their jobs. Some grow to resent that and decide the officer is to blame. <br /><br />Good street cops aren't necessarily those who rise through the department. When you step on toes the way a hard working cop does you make waves - and that doesn't get you promoted. Don't read this as sour grapes - haven't taken a promotional test in 15 years and I don't plan to. It's just a fact in many departments.<br /><br />So, when you're being "hassled by the man" don't forget that he's not making one penny more for his trouble and he's not helping his promotional potential either. The hardest working cop on the department makes the same as the laziest in most cases.

 

[JB]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Please understand that I do not question the Officer's action. It is the law that he is carrying out that I question.

 

[agitator]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Terry, retire and join our force!

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

JB:<br /><br />I'm not sure what law you object to. When you say "law" do you mean literally a state statute, constitutional law, or do you mean that you object to the procedure? <br /><br />Much of police work is salesmanship. Many times it's saved me from having to use force and quite frankly it's saved me from having my *** kicked on occasion as well. Bob's example is that of poor salesmanship. I agree that the Deputy telling him that's how he catches criminals is tactless and unnecessary - but that doesn't mean that it's not precisely true. There are many ways to explain the procedure without making a guy feel like you think he's a crook - even when you do. That doesn't change the procedure, but the way it's explained makes all the difference. When I train new officers there are several core ideas that I want them to apply to their work. One is the idea that it's not what you say to people, but how you make them feel. The Deputy in Bob's example apparently hasn't considered this.<br /><br />As an aside, I'm President of the Union which represents Patrol Officers and Detectives at my department. We have an officer who is a natural when it comes to street police work. The problem is that he generates a ton of citizen complaints wherein he is accused of being rude. When you look at the recordings, video and audio, it's plain to see that he's not swearing at or otherwise provoking people. Instead, it's how he makes people feel. There's something inherent in his physical demeanor and manner of speech that simply rubs people the wrong way. In some instances this leads to a physical confrontation which results in compliants of excessive force. All could be avoided if we could get him to recognize the error of his ways. This is an example of how salesmanship makes all the difference. <br /><br />Agitator:<br /><br />Which force am I joining?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Hey everyone.... my opinion did not reflect on the officer as a person only the actions. Jason will undersatnd this quickly.... the officer lacked bearing and tact. The sheriff's department here is a sad organization and he reflected it. Trust me the man would not hold a candle to most of the men I had served with.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Originally posted by Bob_VT:<br />Trust me the man would not hold a candle to most of the men I had served with.

Or in the words of the fighter Larry Holmes,<br />"Rocky couldn't even carry my jockstrap"

 

[treedancer]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

I think this about says it all.<br /><br />The drunk driver who crashed into a police car in 2004, triggering a chain-reaction accident that cost Officer Matt Browning both legs, was sentenced to three years in prison Friday.<br /><br />Outside court, Browning said the sentence was fair. But his family was having a harder time forgiving.<br /><br />"I know my son would do three years standing on his head to get his legs back," Dave Browning said<br /><br />"I don't think anything's harsh enough," said Browning's sister Jill, citing the pain that she's seen her brother endure.<br /><br />Police and prosecutors said John Mittelbuscher had been celebrating his birthday for hours before heading home in his Chevrolet Silverado pi<br />Sam Leone/P-D<br />Officer Matt Browning

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

I see where you are going with your thread now. I always try to encourage people to look at both sides. The city I used to work in had a large department, and the whole city was against us no matter what we did. I even had a family early on a sunday morning dressed in their best headed to church give me the finger as I drove past. Every family member in the car! It was too funny to get upset over. Out of curiosity I checked our local files and not a single member of that family had ever had contact with us. No tickets, accidents, nothing. Noty even a report as a victim. Officers in that town had an attitude but we were reacting to what we were given daily. Even when we held fund raisers for the community that was wrong for whatever reason. No respect no courtesy no chance.<br /><br />With all of the conspiracy theorists and the anti government hype running in todays world, it is impossible to do half of our job. Then with the television shows like CSI everyone thinks that is real and thinks all crimes should be solved in minutes. If they are not we end up being a bunch of barney phifes. Like the man who left his car parked here for 2 weeks with the doors unlocked. Someone stole a pair of $10 sunglasses off of his dash. 6 months later he is still angry that I haven't found the suspect and returned his property. It is like someone saying they just walked 20 miles of road and lost a sewing needle, and I have to find it for them. At least that is the feeling. Where to start?<br /><br />I do also know that a lot of departments must be like your saying of yours. A town close to me I swear hires their officers right from under the horses tail. All have attitudes, all are rude and abrupt with their citizens. They do have a lot of calls, and their town is the arm pit of the state, but they need to tone it down a little. The problem is anyone who has contact with them immediately thinks all in uniform are like that. <br /><br />Here in our academy classes we used to have an 8 hour block of training on public relations. Acting professional and kind to everyone even when they are spitting in our faces. That is hard to do but a skill we must master among others. <br /><br />I feel sorry for you that the officer made you feel that way. There is a need to check everyone we contact, but there is also a skill some don't possess and never will in doing this without offending people. It is hard sorting out the good from the bad. In over 10 years I have not yet mastered that skill either, but have no complaints in my file.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

I have slept on the issue and I need to clarify a few things.....<br /><br />This is by no means a "knocking" of police officers in general. I am knocking the "mall cop" who resides in a tiny office at the mall.<br /><br />The sheriff department's in VT are very VERY unlike other ones in the country.<br /><br />They do not have the respect, power, abilities and other attributes found elsewhere in the US. I am aware that in certain states the sheriff's department is the cream of the crop.<br /><br />They departments are made up of people who are great and some less than that caliber. Many of them are wash-outs from other departments but used to direct traffic at work sites, patrol shopping malls and schools. Essentially they are security guards with guns.<br /><br />This is somewhat of the oppposite of the respected departments found elsewhere. We also have "constables" who are appointed and permitted to do the same things (and the constables are required to attend a one week school)but are usually a much older person (past retirement age).<br /><br />I sincerely respect the officers with reservation and do not feel as comfortable as I would by dealing with a local police department or state police. <br /><br />I guess in military terms (I am familiar with) I feel they are uniformed but not as qualified as others among the ranks. Everyone in the military wears a uniform but they are not as qualified as some.

 

[technostingray]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

Originally posted by deputydawg:<br /> One point that was left out. <br /> We officers spend our lives in the worst 15 minutes of everyone elses lives. Once in a while that wears on a guy.

No doubt about it. You are a disgruntled Employee. A copy of this corespondence has been place in your personell file. <br />Hope your sense of humor is a good at the CA Police Officer.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

"Here in our academy classes we used to have an 8 hour block of training on public relations. Acting professional and kind to everyone even when they are spitting in our faces. That is hard to do but a skill we must master among others. "<br /><br /><br />All true. Whenever I went through the academy our Captain at the SO did alot of the teaching since he was a retired school teacher. Capt Whit was identical to Pat Swayze in roadhouse. You be nice till its time to not be nice. Then you handle your business. When the perp has decided that the officer is right and agrees to comply then you better be nice again. Capt would try to talk to people and would have us stand beside him. He would tell them several times that it was time to cool down and what was going to happen if they didn't. If they refused after several orders Whit would take a step back and say "Boys" For the next minute or so lots of respect was earned. Generally all it would take was a minute and then the perp understood exactly what was expected from them. Excessive force was never used, it wasn't necc. Whit always made sure we had enough people there to get the job done. Two cops wrestling with a guy is liable to get one or the other hurt. Five cops taking a guy down greatly reduces the chance of injury for everyone. Capt Whit died about 2 years ago, one of the best lawman this world will ever know, God rest his soul.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

The National Institute for Justice (research branch of the US Dept of Justice) did a survey of cops across the nation to get a realistic idea of how extensive the serious abuse of authority is with police. It’s an eye opener.<br /><br />- For every 10 cops, 3 feel they aren’t allowed to use as much force as they should to make an arrest.<br /><br />- 1 out of 4 cops feels it’s ok to use more force than legally allowed to make an arrest.<br /><br />- 2 out of 5 cops think following the rules is not compatible with getting the job done.<br /><br />- Only 16% of cops never use more force than necessary to make an arrest. 62% seldom use more force than necessary, and 22% (1 in 5 cops) often or always uses more force than necessary to arrest someone.<br /><br />- 32% of cops (1 in 3) never respond to verbal abuse with physical force. 53% seldom respond with physical force, and 15% often or always respond to verbal abuse with physical force.<br /><br />Perhaps the most damning aspect of the survey wasn’t to learn how extensive the abuse of authority is within the law enforcement community, but rather how few officers will lift a finger to right a wrong when the ‘wrong’ involves a fellow police office. Remember, the Rodney King fiasco also brought down 3 cops that perjured themselves by filing false reports; they lied thru their teeth to protect fellow cops that went way over the line.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

How did I just KNOW somebody was gonna go there?

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hey Police Officers RANT

You should count yourself lucky to be white in this case.Try DWB as in driving while black.