Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Then you have to lift the distributor up so it clears the gear and turn it a little to get on a different tooth. Once you get the distributor on the correct tooth, turn the engine with the distributor in the gear, it will drop the shaft onto the oil pump.

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

ok I have pulled the distributor more times than anyone would ever want to, ever. I have lined up timing marks on crankshaft pulley with zero on the compression stroke with the distributor removed, about 10 times now. When doing so, Mark on crank pulley is on TDC zero and rotor points to #1 wire on cap. I have attempted to start the motor numerous times.. It cranks smoothly. To try to get it to start I have turned the distributor both ways. If turned to much either way it backfires thru carb. I understand that it means I turned it too far. A few of you have stated that I might be off a tooth or 2. Am I suppossed to pull the distributor and set to TDC again before trying again or can I just pull it out and twist it to line up on another tooth? So pull it and set TDC and restab or just pull it turn it and restab? <br />Also And probably more importantly, I'm pretty sure some of the wiring isn't correct. This motor has household wire nuts on some wire joints. And the coil has a wire from the positive to the starter stud "R". Is this correct. Does that wire go to starter "R" post. Shouldnt it go to slave solenoid?

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

One more thing, rocker arm cover says "Ignition Timing 8deg BTDC" SO my question is, am I suppossed to be setting 8deg BTDC when I try TDC and zero with distributor pulled on the compression stroke? <br /><br />Thoroughly Confused and Fed UP.<br />Korie

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

If the wiring isn't right, if the timing isn't right, if it doesn't have fuel, if it doesn't have spark to all 8 spark plugs, if the engine is flooded, it ain't gonna start.<br />Just because you are a jet engine mechanic, doens't automatically make you a boat mechanic. Believe it or not, the engines are completely different.

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

I completely understand that Don. I just want to get this thing running. Can you help me out with the wiring. <br />Is there suppossed to be a wire from + on coil to R on starter solenoid? Is there suppossed to be a wire from bat connector on alternator to + on coil?

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Since I have no idea what kind of distributor conversion you have (I asked you a week ago), or what the wiring for it is like, there is no way to help.<br />Did you get instructions with your conversion kit? or is this just a different type distributor?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

start with the firing order<br />1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.<br />set dist. according to dons instructions.<br /> "Is there suppossed to be a wire from bat connector on alternator to + on coil "?

 

[newport dave]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Sounds like you are getting a weak spark. It could be due to low voltage at the coil. The Pertronix unit needs at least 8 volts at the positive side of the coil during cranking.<br /><br />You may want to try to remove all wires from the coil except the two for the Pertronix unit (distributor). Then, using a temporary jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the coil, then try to start. <br /><br />If it does not start (it may be flooded), try holding the throttle all the way open (be prepared to pull it back right away if the engine starts).<br /><br />Dave

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

That's the problem Dave, we don't know if he has a Pertronix or not. He could have a Mallory conversion or who knows what else is out there.

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Sorry I thought I had already posted that info, but looking up guess I didn't. SO, here goes, 82 Mercruiser 898 305 5.0L serial #5987939. Outdrive pre alpha one serial# 6251523. stock carb with electric choke, new alternator, stud for grd, stud for bat and 2 smaller wires 1 red, 1 blk. Electronic conversion is Petronix Ignitor 09Z-V4 (got that off of the top of the little electronic box that goes in distributor. Petronix 1.5 ohm Flame thrower coil. <br />I checked the voltage going to coil on the + side. Its getting 12V. Put a meter to + and grd and got 12V<br /><br />What other info should I provide? Sorry again I thought I had put this info up already.

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Did the engine run before you tried installing the Pertronix?<br />I'm not familiar with the Pertronix setup. Does it have one wire going to the coil or 2?<br />We can set you up to run the engine without any engine wiring hooked up. Just remove all the wires from the coil except the wires from the distributor to the coil. For power, make up a test lead wire to go from the battery + wire with an aligator clip on the end so you can hook it on the coil (+ terminal) for power. Now you have power to the coil and with the distributor set properly, it will start if you have the plug wires on right and there is fuel.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

DonS<br /> the red marks are appearing on your forhead now <br /> hahahahahaah<br />Korie<br /> I posted how to set the dist so if the system is capeable of making spark it will fire up first time everytime.<br /><br /> ill try again so I can get matching red marks.<br /><br /> find TDC compression stroke.<br /> you can use the finger on number one hole or the rocker arm observation, then use a socket on the crank and a thin pick and lightly rotate the engine back and forth to find the rough TDC of the piston after the intake valve closes.<br /> now verify the mark on the balancer is within a degree or two of the TDC mark on the timing cover.<br /> now we have set and verified TDC compression stroke.<br /> on to the distributor.<br /> use the manual to find which tower is #1. there will be a picture showing #1 tower orientation and distributor rotation.<br /><br /> sometimes the caps are labeled as well.<br /><br /> some distributers are critical on which tower is #1 and if you use the picture in the book all will work ok.<br /> now on to setting the dist in place.<br /><br /> using a new gasket drop the body in the hole with the rotor pointing at the #1 tower and the tower pointing in the correct location as shown in the oicture. usually its 40* or so to port from centerline.<br /><br /> if the dist body does not contact the intake the oil pump drive tang is not lined up with the oil pump drive rod. <br /><br /> now ya have 2 choices.<br /> choice one is to remove the body and use a screwdriver to move the driven rod and reinstall the body and repeat as nessasary.<br /> choice two is to rotate the engine 2 complete revolutions while lightly pressing on the dist body. you will feel and see it drop into place and the motor will be back at TDC compression stroke.<br /> always turn the engine in its normal direction of rotation.<br /> now we have the engine at TDC compression stroke, the dist rotor pointing at the #1 tower and the #1 tower pointing in the correct location as per your manual.<br /> now add all the plug wires and coil wires.<br /> now with the key on, a spark plug in the #1 wire and grounded, rotate the dist body left and right. it will spark as the trigger circuits operate. you will notice the point at which the spark occurs.the last spark, make it happen while rotating the body CCW. now if the system is capeable of sparks it will start without backfireing. works for any distributor motor. if your trouble shooting spark start with your tester attached to the dist end of the coil wire until steady spark is verified.<br /> the wire from the starter R terminal to the coil + terminal is a bypass wire to aid in starting.<br /> its not rocket science its basic electronics.<br /> all the petronix does is what the points did only it does it with a hall effect transformer and some switching transistors.<br /> as current flows through the primary ign coil windings all the electrons are happily heading home. when the circuit suddenly is broken all those happy trons in their magnetic bubble get agitated, they wanna go home.<br /> as they stampede about and the magnetic bubble bursts it will induce a rather large voltage in the secondary ign coil windings.<br /> as the unhappy electrons keep building pressure they can finaly jump the air gap at the spark plug to get to ground. now they are all happy again.<br /> in other words the type of current switching does not matter. what matters is the current is availible and switched off at the correct time everytime. you could do it with a light switch in your hand if your quick enough.<br /> thats all ign timing is.<br /> its a matter of making the spark occur at the correct position of the piston on its upwrd compression stroke. to soon and the intake valve is open and may backire from the intake, to late and the exhaust valve is open and may backfire from the exhaust.<br /> just right and its goldile locks and the baby bear all over.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

I have a feeling we are not doing the all important counter rotate to account for the worm gear engagement....

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

robby<br /> dont need to if ya follow the advice, its a good note though. as the body seats on the intake there will be some movement of the rotor.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

korie<br /> prior to the altenator and distributor conversion did the motor run ok?<br /> when was the last time it did run ok?

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

The last time it ran was a few months ago when I was out with my kids. After about 30-40 mins of running and stopping, engine sounded funny so I stopped looked under the cover and found oily water. Took it out, figuring I had a blown head gasket or something. After taking off the Intake, heads, water pump and timing cover, pulled the motor to replace oil pan and found pin holes in pan. A lot of them. So many many man hours and a bunch of hundreds for refurbished heads, new intake and gaskets all around as well as timing cover and seal, found out that it was essentially the oil pan. Add in a new alternator and electronic conversion and coil.<br /><br />That is when it ran last. probably 2-4 months ago. Feels like years.<br /><br />And when it ran, ran nice and smooth. The only thing it did was stall when shifting at low idle to pull up to dock, and it did that only 2-3 times.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words:<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />Also, just to clarify - your engine doesn't care where the distributor is as long as the rotor lines up with the proper post at the proper time. (In other words, don't worry about being a tooth or two off - as long as you have physical room to turn the distributor and get it in the right "time" as rodbolt and others have instructed then you're okay. But the above picture shows the typical position).

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

Are you sure you got the valves adjusted properly?<br />For that matter, are you sure you have the heads and intake back on properly?<br />And, did you find the cause of the water in the oil?

 

[kaherc]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

The cause of the oil in my bilge was from the old oil pan. I never had water in the oil. The old pan had small pin holes in it. I guess it was the original.

 

[Don S]

Re: Serious wiring difficulty and no starting.

I misunderstood. You mentioned you pulled the heads because of suspected blown head gasket because of "oily water" but that was obviously in the bilge you were talking about, not sure why you pulled the heads, but the other 2 questions still remain.<br />1. Are you sure you got the valves adjusted properly?<br />2. Are you sure you have the heads and intake back on properly?