questions about towing (how much extra power to tow uphill?)

[melontable]

I have a few questions about towing boats. I am looking for a new tow vehicle and could really use some suggestions and input.


I'm looking at the tow ratings of several vehicles and let's say it says that it has a tow rating of 5,000 pounds. What exactly does this mean? Does this mean that it can tow 5,000 pounds MAX under certain circumstances, and that functionally the "safe" tow rating is less than that? Like, you're better off being safe and only towing, say, 3,000 pounds?

Or does it mean that it can definitely tow 5,000 pounds, up hills, pretty much all the time, with no significant additional wear on the engine/transmission?


Here's why I'm asking: I've been fishing with my dad quite a bit lately, but this involves towing up into the mountains for about 2 hours. I very much doubt that if I get a truck rated at 5,000 pounds and my boat is 4999 pounds, this means that I can tow uphill for 2 hours a few times a month and this won't damage my vehicle. But then, how much cushion do I need? If I have a boat that's 5,000 pounds and I'm hoping to (within reason) be able to tow uphill, do I need a towing capacity of 6,000 pounds? 7,000? More?


I'm trying to decide between a 1/2 ton truck and a 3/4 ton truck. I anticipate needing to tow about 3,000 pounds into the mountains (about 2 hours) fairly regularly (like, not every day, but probably at least once a month). I'd also like to be able to have the option of towing a heavier vessel (about 6,000 pounds?my friend has a really nice, big boat that I could never afford! ha) up into the mountains maybe 1-2 times a year. Would a 1/2 ton cut it? Do I need to go up to 3/4 ton? Or higher?


Any advice, suggestions, input, etc. would be very much appreciated.

thanks!!

 

[boatman37]

if you will be towing a 6000lb boat up any hills i would go with the 3/4 ton with the bigger engine. i'm guessing if you have to go uphill then at some point you will have to come back down that same hill. the 3/4 tons brakes are a little beefier and would hold up better. as far as the lighter load, i have a 2013 Ram 1500 hemi with 3.55 gears and 6 spd automatic. i pull my 25' Sea Ray pretty easily. with my tri-axle trailer i am probably around 8000lbs. my truck is rated to about 8600 or so (can't remember exact number). i can pull up the average hill no problem but i wouldn't want to pull up a 2 hour hill with it. now if you mean 5000lb total, with trailer and extras, you might be ok then but i can't say for sure

 

[Sprig]

It's always nice to have a 3/4 ton truck but it doesn't sound like you really need one. Whether you are towing 3000 or 6000 lbs a 1/2 ton truck with a tow package should do just fine. Some 1/2 tons with tow packages have tow capacities in excess of 10000 lbs. gearing is important but basically the more powerful the engine (horse power and torque) the easier to tow uphill.

 

[Rapio]

There are mountains and there are grade %. If you are towing on a 6 or 7% grade for 2 hours you have an issue to address. I've pulled a 22.5 Sea Ray and a 17' O/B with a 2007 RAM 1500 Quad 4X4 5.7 and a 2017 Chev. 4X4, 5.3, 4 1/4 hours 6% grades off and on. Trucks have trailer packages with the necessary trans and oil coolers. Not too speedy at times, but no problem

 

[ondarvr]

Any time you tow something you are putting more stress on the vehicle, more stress means more wear and tear, so yes it will wear out any truck sooner if you tow with it, the heavier the load, the more the wear.

​There aren't many places in the country where you can tow up hill for 2 hours straight, where are you driving.

 

[89retta]

Get a diesel 3/4 ton

 

[ahicks]

Thinking most vehicles rated for 5k, and pulling 5K up the (big) hills should be no problem - if properly set up (e.g. trans cooler), and you aren't in too big a hurry. "Not in too big a hurry" meaning you may be spending some (or possibly considerable) time driving well below the speed limit. This will drive many bonkers from what I've seen. They will try and maintain the speed limit to the point the driver of the tow vehicle spends a lot of time with his foot on the mat. That's one problem.

Another, possibly more dangerous thing to consider, is coming down that big hill you just went up. Here, there's no putting your foot on the mat and just waiting to get to the top. Here, there's going to be some driving skill involved, with some pretty serious consequences for those that enter the situation blindly. To my way of thinking, this is where an oversize tow vehicle may be desirable/worth checking in to....

 

[bigdee]

SAE J2807 has your answer. In short, the factory tow rating is based on test conditions that you probably never exceed. Check this out it puts it in layman terms http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-sae-trailering-standards-explained-tech-dept

 

[melontable]

cool, thanks for all the input.

General clarification: I don't even pull it up a 2 hour straight hill, but my drive rises about 7,000 feet over the course of about 90 minutes. Lots of ups and downs, so while it's not 2 hours straight uphill, there's not much rest after climbing one hill before the next one starts.

@boatman: good point about the brakes. But your conclusion is pretty much my problem: I bet a 1/2 ton would cut it, but it's close so I'm just not sure! ha

@sprig: Thanks. another data point! And I guess I am seeing 10k lbs 1/2 ton trucks. I just assumed that most of them are in the 5-6k range. But if I see a 10,000 pounder, I might just jump on that!

@Rapio: yeah true about the grades. I don't know exactly what the grades are. They get me up into the mountains from the valley in 2 hours, so they're not just hills. I just assumed that trucks have the tow package: I guess with light duty trucks and more "comfort" trucks, I need to check that. thanks

@ondarvr: yes, good point. I guess I meant "reasonable" wear and tear. Like, I wouldn't want to pull a 6,000 pound boat uphill with a VW bug for any length of time, because it would kill the transmission. On the flip side, I wouldn't think twice about like hooking a hitch bike rack up to a F350 super duty and leaving that there all the time, because it's so far under the rating that I assume it doesn't add much stress. Truck might wear out 5 minutes sooner, but it won't kill anything! I guess I'm looking for a consensus answer: If you had to tow a 3,000 pound (boat and trailer and gear) up into the mountains every few weeks for the foreseeable future, is that the kind of thing that deserves a 3/4 ton? Will a 3/4 ton last years or decades longer than a 1/2 ton in that same situation? What about towing a 6,000 pound boat up maybe once a year? thanks!

@89retta: ha! maybe. that's best case scenario

@ahicks: by properly set up, that's just meaning adding a tow package? I'm fine driving slow, but I'm not fine with wearing out such an expensive machine years faster than it otherwise would be. Slow is fine, killing my truck is not also, good point about safety stopping going downhill. another big consideration.

@bigdee: Thanks for the link, great info. One question about this, though: When they test this, what does it mean to be "able" to do it? let's say I had to make a drive similar to the davis dam grade: doing it once is very different from doing it once a week. Are they saying that their vehicle can "handle" this in that it can handle this drive regularly, or does it count if you make it to the top and then your transmission blows up as soon as the test ends? thanks again!


Thank you to all who have responded.

 

[Slager]

My take on it would be that the auto company thinks you can tow that amount under all conditions and have the truck last at least through the warranty period, probably more. If you are usually towing half the rating, then you might predict it to last at least twice the warranty, but there is no guarantee. Another consideration is that, that rating also applies to rv trailers, horse trailers etc. Those usually have a lot more wind resistance and put more wear on the vehicle than pulling a boat. There are things you can do to reduce wear on the transmission too if you have any manual control at all, like down shifting before you start the next hill, instead of letting the automatic shift halfway up.

 

[bigdee]

@bigdee: Thanks for the link, great info. One question about this, though: When they test this, what does it mean to be "able" to do it? let's say I had to make a drive similar to the davis dam grade: doing it once is very different from doing it once a week. Are they saying that their vehicle can "handle" this in that it can handle this drive regularly, or does it count if you make it to the top and then your transmission blows up as soon as the test ends? thanks again!


.

Yes the J2807 standards test includes engine temperature and transmission temperatures which have to remain in the normal range. As long as temperature is normal components are not overloaded. The J2807 criteria is way above what most people will encounter while towing....which makes tow ratings skewed to the conservative side.
Here is a more detailed article on J2807 http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

 

[ahicks]

As a former Michigan snowmobiler that trailered 3-4 hours (depending on conditions) north pulling trailers that weigh about what we're talking here maybe 20-30 times a season for MANY years, my friends and I were always debating the 1/2 vs. 3/4 ton decision, and we ran 4x4's exclusively. Early on the 3/4 ton trucks were pretty rough riding, and the gas milage just sucked! Today's trucks though, you hardly notice the heavier rating - making the decision that much harder. So, to sum up a long story, if the finance minister can swing the bigger price tag of the 3/4 ton, that would be my vote.

 

[bruceb58]

I tow a boat with a 1/2 T pickup that weighs between 6K and 7K depending on how much stuff I am hauling in it up to my lake house. I am towing up hills that go from sea level up to 7K feet in 99 miles in the Sierra Nevada. Yes, I end up going slow...sometimes 25 MPH in the lowest gear. My brakes on my trailer are electric/hydraulic 4 wheel disc Kodiacs. Braking is never an issue. I added a very large transmission cooler. Going up the steepest hills in 100 degree heat, the ATF fluid gets up to only 190.

Would a 3/4T be nice? Yes it would but not necessary.

 

[SOG3]

I have a 2005 Toyota Tundra rated at 7200 # and pulled a 25' travel trailer all over the N.C. mountains with no problems at all .The empty weight.of the TT was 3004 # . If anyone is familiar with Black Mtn. , I usually topped it at 65 mph in 4th gear !

 

[jimmbo]

I assume your trailer is a tandem axle. if you are towing in the mountains I hope you have brakes on both axles.

 

[Leardriver]

Modern half tons will usually tow around 10K. 5-6000 is nothing.
I have an F350 diesel, and for my 8100 lb boat, it is overkill.

 

[ahicks]

A diesel makes down hill runs like a cake walk. That's not overkill at all if you can help justify owning it with a few other things you do with it.

 

[Silvertip]

The key to selecting ANY tow vehicle to make sure you understand the final drive gearing (axle ratio) of the vehicle. Selecting a ratio poor towing ratio requires an awful lot of power to compensate. For reference purposes: 3.08:1 is an economy axle ratio and would not be as good for towing, especially in hilly/mountainous terrain than say 3:73:1. Theoretically the 3.08 should burn less fuel than the 3.73 since the engine is reving less, but because you are into the throttle more than with the 3.73, fuel economy may actually be better with the deeper gears. And just so you know, tow ratings of 5000# for example means you are over the limit with a 4900# boat. The trailer weight and everything in the boat adds to that figure so you may actually be towing 6000# (as was eluded to earlier). Obviously a dually diesel is a great tow vehicle but also overkill at those lesser tow requirements.

 

[Pusher]

I hope I don't hijack your thread Melontable but rather add depth by asking.

My wife is looking at a 2017 Jeep Summit. The tow rating is just over 6,000 lbs. I was thinking of suggesting the V-8 upgrade if it could tow my 17' fiberglass runabout. Should I be looking at the gears rather than the hp? I know plenty of boats have been towed with V-6's.... I guess I'm as lost on this as I am on prop pitches.

Should a tow vehicle be matched by tow weight, gear ratio, engine size a balance thereof?

Gas consumption is great but only if your vehicle doesn't lose considerable life as a result.... In my mind anyway.

If I'm hijacking then please disregard my follow-up question. It may just be that I'm slower than Melontable.

Hope you don't mind melontable

 

[bigdee]

Should a tow vehicle be matched by tow weight, gear ratio, engine size a balance thereof?

melontable

Forget all about gear ratios,engine size.....J2807 tow rating factors all that stuff so you don't have to. If OEM tow rating exceeds your boat/trailer weight your done,period. No need for margins either. J2807 is an engineering standard of tests to determine all criteria of towing.