HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

[ctlincoln]

Hi all,<br /><br />I really need some help with a DIY project I started on a boat I recently acquired. I got the boat dirt cheap and wanted to turn it into a smoth running marine vessel.<br /><br />The boat is a 1979 16' seanymph deep V fishing boat that appeared to need a little TLC. I got it from a friend knowing the engine needed work but I have run into wants to make me cry.<br /><br />I got the motor running good and decided to refurbish the floor and customize to my liking. Upon tearing out all the wood I realized I had serious problems. The foam under the 2nd layer of plywood (some previous owner just laid new plywood over the old rotted wood) is completely saturated. To give you an idea a chunk I tore out weighed 15 lbs and was only 12"x6"x6". I originally thought I could just tear out the foam in the middle, a trough about 6' long by 12" wide and leave it at that. Only problem is the remainging foam is completely saturated and hasn't dried out after sitting for two day. <br /><br />This is what I'm searching for:<br /><br />1. Tear out all the foam or just the trough I began on and leave the trough hoping the remaining foam will eventually dry out?<br /><br />2. Tear out all the foam and leave it without or replace with a pour in foam or foam insulation board from Home Depot?<br /><br />3. Should there be a small trough down the middle of the boat to allow water to run to the bilge area?<br /><br />4. If I go with a pour in foam where can I get it and with out paying a lot of cash?<br /><br />I want to do this project correctly so I need good advice on what to do. Ripping this pour in foam is a real pain in the backside but I plan on doing it right.<br /><br />Please help

 

[Walleye King]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

Well there is a ton of info on all of this. You are looking at replacing the stringers and you better look at the transom too, I bet that will need replaced as well. There are no cheap fixes if you are going to do it right and plan on keeping the boat. Cost about $500 for the wood, resin and fiberglass. Time is the big portion, a lot of work!<br /><br />First off, get this book "Runabout Rennovation" by Jim Anderson, has most of the info you need, and do a search of the forum as there is a lot of info on doing all of this. The foam is done and will never dry out so get a shovel and get it out! Then the real work starts.<br /><br />Good Luck!!

 

[JasonJ]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

You are going to spend around $100 for enough 2 part foam to get the job done, no way around that. Is that Sea Nymph aluminum? If so, you are lucky in that no glassing is needed, but if it is fiberglass, you are in for a whole mess o fun, but don't get discouraged. It isn't hard to do, just dirty and itchy and smelly. Good luck and post a pic or ten.

 

[SeaMasterZ@aol.com]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

I have an tin starcraft, and Jason told me ... <br /><br />floor in, drill holes in the floor... get the bow up and pour some into each hole, not too much or youll bow the hull and blow the floor off <br /><br />breathe...<br /><br />just pour some at a time, if you do a search on foam youll come up with the post<br /><br />good luck!

 

[ctlincoln]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

Thanks for the advice so far all. I guess I should have mentioned the boat is aluminum. Therefore, no need to replace stingers or do any glassing. I have already bought most of the material. Going to use 3/4 treated plywood to redo the floor. Saw a post about using styrofoam board or empty antifreeze jugs instead of that pour in foam. Got a date with my trenching shovel tonight to go into battle with that foam. Like the idea of using empty antifreeze jugs but worried that it will make a lot of noise. Anyhow thanks all for the advice give thus far.

 

[wallbanger2]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

If your going to use antifreeze jugs you can still put foam around it to stop them from moving.<br />Here's a link to order foam at $15 for 2CF instead of the $80 that west marine sells it for:<br /><br /> http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html

 

[gewf631]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

Hoosier_Fisher<br />Or, just go down to your local Home-Depot, Menards, Lowes, and buy some 4x8 sheets of the closed-cell styrofoam (insulation). It's cheap, easy to work with, and out of the sun, should last a VERY long time.<br />Furthermore, if you EVER have to pull-up the floor, you won't have to dig-out all that poured-in foam!<br /><br />Just my .02<br /><br />Ed

 

[dakotashooter2]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

I personally wouldn't use jugs. If they are loose they will make noise like you said and may hold water if punctured (installing pedestals and ect.) or worn through. Foam insulation board is a good option. You might want to get a few cans of expandable foam to spray in and around the insulation board to keep it from moving and help "glue" the board together and to the hull. Another note, when you cut your plywood floor be sure to treat the cut edges or the lamination may eventually separate along those edges.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

styrofoam packing peanuts?

 

[catfish1]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

best advice i can give is "dont get the foam on your hands or clothes" nothing will take it off!<br /><br />oh, follow the mixing instructions, and temp recommendations. i think many people dont, and then wonder why they were short on foam!

 

[ctlincoln]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

DakotaShooter,<br /><br />Would it be okay to buy some of that expanding foam they sell for insulating around windows and doors? And what would be the best sealer to use on the edges of the plywood? It's already treated so wasn't sure if it needed additional protection or not. And last, is there a product I could spray on the inside of the aluminum hull to help seal any leaks that may be coming from the seams or loose rivets before I lay the styrofoam down?<br /><br />Thanks for the help!

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

check for leaks BEFORE you install anything!!!!<br />get a hose and fill the hull with some water and<br />look for leaks. if add ing foam, make sure it's<br />"closed cell", which won't absorb water.<br />good luck,<br />M.Y.

 

[bhalsdorf]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

Hoosier_Fisher <br />I don't think that door and window stuff is a closed cell foam. I believe if you read the can it tells you it will not hold up under moisture. I know the can I looked at said that. Besides you would need alot of cans to do a boat. Cheaper to buy the 2 part foam at US Composites

 

[catfish1]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

the best way to go on foam is the two part, click on the us composites link wallbanger put up. i used regular bondo ($13 a gal at wallmart) to seal the edges of the ply then a couple healthy helpings of fiberglass resin over it. it may not be the right stuff to use, but its holding up for me!<br />and remember: wear gloves!

 

[dakotashooter2]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

I am a building inspector by trade and the reason I suggested treating the cut edges is because it is required by code for exposed, housing applications. Since a boat will see more water than a home it makes good sense. I don't recall the name of the product used but it is basically the same product as used to treat the ply. The lumberyard should have it if they sell treated ply. A few coats of a good water seal would probably do an acceptable job. It might interest you to know there are 3 grades of treated ply rated for 40 60 and 80 years. Most lumber yards carry the 40 year. I only suggested the canned spray foam as a filler/adhesive to help keep the foam board sheets from shifting around.It would not be economical for the whole project, considering it is about $5 per can and only expands 2-3 times the size of the can. It can handle some moisture or it would not be effective for sealing doors and windows but probably could not withstand long term inundation in water. If you have a local insulating company in the area you could check with them. Many use the spray foams for insulating and may the the water resistent grade for used roof applications.

 

[ctlincoln]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

I want to thank all for the great advice. I believe I'm going to go with the styrofoam board and if needed use the can insulation to only help hold it in place. After the mess I ran into with the old foam I want little or no foam at all! After all, this is only a fishing boat that I spent $2000 on. Yeah I got a great deal! I will post here on how my efforts turn out after my weekend.<br /><br />Hoosier Fisher

 

[catfish1]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

just so you know: styrofoam board will absorb water!<br />the two part urethane is not as hard as it may sound and it is much more resistant to absorption. i thought you wanted to do it right! <br />if the cost has something to do with it, incorporate some two liter bottles in with the foam.

 

[ctlincoln]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

Catfish,<br /><br />I do want to do it right and that's why I am doing it with the closed cell styrofoam board. I plan on leaving small gaps under the styrofoam to allow the water to run back to the bilge area. Pour in foam will not allow this. I will also make acces panels to the styrofoam so I can easily inspect and replace in the future. Sorry but the original foam in the boat is so waterlogged that the boat must have an additional 300 lbs. Not to mention tearing out the foam is no easy chore. I did have better luck using a trenching shovel though. I appreciate your input but I want nothing to do with that pour in foam. I am also going to cut the board as tight as possible to keep down any noise.<br /><br />Thanks

 

[catfish1]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

understood, but pouring foam doesnt mean you cant leave space between the foam and the bottom of the hull for the water to run back to the bilge. if you read some previous posts on the subject you will learn. i think it was specks & reds that had used the "put a thin layer of sheet foam down, then pour foam on top". what i do is cut a piece of ply, put a plastic bag over it & pour foam on top of it, then after the foam expands, just pull the board out of the bag, if you start from the back you can pour the bow area solid, and wont have to worry about getting the ply out, you just wont use ply for the bow section. thats just a couple examples, next time i do it i will try specks & reds method.<br /><br />i'm not trying to tell you what to do, just giving you some ideas about the right way to do it. a bunch of sheet foam is not the method of choice with guys here! i know because i've read lots of posts, if it is done right it should last as long as you own the boat! good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: HELP!! Novice restoring boat needs advice on foam.

I did an experiment on that 4x8 sheet foam, and it does absorb water. We were sheeting a house with it, and I took a small peice and exposed it to water. Sponge Action!. One other thing with the 2 part foam, oyu can run a thinner floorboard, because the foam will act to support the floor, and it deadens that "tin can" sound aluminum boats have. I still strongly endorse 2 part foam, but thats just me. Good luck however you do it, and post some pics.