5.0 mpi problems and help.

Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Hello. This is my first post here but I have been using this forum as a resource for quite a while. Sorry if this is really long but I wanted to give you all the background on my current issue.

I bought a 2006 sundeck 240 with low hours. Like 35. 5.0 MPI (0W376849) with a bravo 3 (0W285424) First trip out this season the boat was running great. then impeller went. Before I knew what happened I overheated it pretty good. Melting the flappers, rubber exhaust boots, shift cable just to name a few. Pulled it out of the water and began tearing her down. Did a compression check and those seemed ok. 6 of 8 were at 150. 2 were at 135 at the time. So I put it all back together. Run her on muffs and all seems well. Then on the second trip of the season the engine seems weak. Promptly pull her back into the slip and begin investigating. Tried to restart her. It’s hydro locked and won’t turn. 😖another compression check; now those 2 cylinders are at 30psi. Head gasket is shot. Tear it down again. Replaced head gaskets. Now compression is 150 on all 8. Run her on muffs In the drive way over the next couple days. Changing the oil/ filters 6 times to purge whatever water made it’s way in. 3rd trip of season engine seemingly runs great. Then I hit an RPM limiter for over speed engine in neutral. Neutral safety switch is also melted 🤦🏽‍♂️. Fix that. Which is where I am at now. Engine seemingly runs good but at higher rpms I get a knock sensor fault code. Then solid continuous beep. Then smartcraft informs me that the engine is now in guardian mode. My questions right now are




1 - does this mean the knock sensors need replaced? Or could this be a sign of something else eg. incorrect base timing or perhaps valves ?




2- would having a code reader from Rinda help me decipher what to do with this. And if so which would be better to have : the tech mate pro or the diacom PC program ?




Thanks for any responses/ help.
 

Rick Stephens

Admiral
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
Not having a control module in my boats I am not qualified to answer your questions. However, don't be surprised at the issues. A 14 year old boat with 35 hours on it is a poor abused beast that needed all the maintenance done before taking it on the water. That's the hardest thing you can do to a boat and the most common cause of mechanical problems. Sorry that you are having them, but they are expected. alldodge Bt Doctur or Bondo are the right folks to answer the knock sensor question. You'll find their software recommendations all over this forum. If I recall, the Diacom is the better way to go. But they would be a lot better source than I.

Good luck! And welcome to iBoats. Sounds like you found the right place to be.

Rick
 

nickzlb77

Seaman
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
58
I keep my rinda with me at all times for both mine and customer boats. It’s an incredibly valuable and convenient tool to have, especially with MPI’s.
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
43,319
Howdy
Then I hit an RPM limiter for over speed engine in neutral

You have a in gear switch on the shift plate. The pick shows an Alpha which the Bravo does not have the interrupter. Check this switch and if memory serves you should be able to disconnect it for test. It shows a connection when in neutral

1 - does this mean the knock sensors need replaced? Or could this be a sign of something else eg. incorrect base timing or perhaps valves ?

Look for the Blue wire attached to the knock sensor. Follow its path and make sure it does not lie along side the spark plug wires. If this wire lays along side, the voltage in the spark plug wire can signal the PCM it has a knock when it does not.

Techmate is easier to carry around but Diacom can record info while running for review later, and also needs a laptop. Smartcraft fills in many of the issues, but if I had smartcraft, might go with diacom but thats a choice
 

Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Thanks for the replies. I will look into the spark wires. Does the diacom program tell you more information or is it just able to save it and print ?
 

alldodge

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Mar 8, 2009
Messages
43,319
Diacom displays may things at one time and you can choose which you want to see. Also allows for file to be saved and posted here for others to look at, print, or just step thru later.

Techmate allows only to see one thing at a time and no file saving. As before its real portable
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
Depending on view you can see 5 parameters at once on Techmate. The Diacom is nice in that everything can be seen at once. The Techmate does save freeze-frame data when a fault occurs. So you can see all the engine parameters (snapshot). Do you like desktop or laptop. The tech mate is rugged and small and very handy, the price is a small screen. The Diacom is a laptop. I always watching parameters, water pressure, a laptop would be too big to fool with, the Techmate sits in my lap. In the end either is priceless as far as I am concerned. If for some reason you don't want it you can sale on eBay for $100 less than you paid for it. One trip to speakership is $206 diagnostic fee!
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
I just realized you have a 2006. Still a great tool but not as valuable as with a CAT engine. If you are in Clear Lake south of Houston by Nasa I would be more than willing to plug mine in for you. Your engine is pretty bullet proof once line out. I would say the most reliable.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
51,357
first, welcome abooard

Second, a 15 year old boat with only 35 hours meant that the boat sat for the last 12-14 years.

boats that are used get an average of 50 hours per year on them.

Even with the low hours, you still need to do all the maintenance. the original impeller is what failed. you need to do all the maintenance.

that is full drive service
full engine service
fuel system service

what is your fuel pressure. sitting for 10-14 years means that the fuel system is full of crud leading to the low power.

since you overheated it enough to melt the shift cables..... (which would be well in excess of 250F), pretty sure you did more than simply lost the head gaskets....... possibly collapsed the piston skirts and have a lot of piston slap now.... or warped the heads.
 

alldodge

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Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
43,319
Depending on view you can see 5 parameters at once on Techmate.

I have the older one line and see the new one listing 3 lines, maybe start a thread in the how to. Would like to see how you can get 5 in there, and not take up this one

techmate.jpg
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
Switch to condensed view. It puts the label and reading on same line. You get 5 data points. If you count all your lines you have 6. In condensed view each parameter and label on same line and then bottom line indicated condensed view for a total of 6 lines.
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
128d25ee-993d-4045-9a47-06af89d0df54
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
fault code 19 which coincidentally i hit 19 times, Engine overspeed. I love it!!! drive them hard.
 

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alldodge

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ok can your choose which items to see or are they in a row?
 

Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Thanks all for the response. I checked the heads And block for for flatness when I changed the head gasket. I have good compression now so I’m not sure if the rings are damaged much. I bought it at the end of the season last year. Put maybe 5-10 hours on it last year and it rode good. The engine was also a RePower in 2013. The boat looks great inside and out. New really. and with 35 hours I thought I got a great deal. But I guess not. I’m going to pull the spark plugs and redo the distributor install at TDC to make sure I’m right on. If that checks out I will try for the knock sensors. Also going to order a Rinda reader tomorrow. Still up in the air whether to go diacom or not.
 

Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Bought the techmate pro this morning. Figure I’d like the portability of it. Pulled distributor and plugs last night. Seemed to be in correct position at TDC. But am going to reinstall today according to service manual 31. Which is a little vague on that topic. Plugs def look like they have some gunk on them. Maybe unburnt fuel ? Is there any way to test knock sensors without an oscilloscope?
 

Searay205

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
471
No items are grouped by system. Its pretty intuitive.

You have a rock solid engine. Water pump floppy vane failed and you repaired damage. Engine will live a long happy life. Solve this little bug and have fun.
 

Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Perhaps someone can clarify this for me so I can avoid another mistake. When the plug is at 12 o clock position in shop manual 31 it calls for the tang to point to the 6 in the housing. That 6 is roughly at 3 o’clock. My distributors tang is at 7 o’clock when pointed at 6 with the plug is at 12. Does this mean my distributor needs rebuilt? I didn’t mess with it and she ran great before all this. Also the scribe marks on shaft do not line up when pointed at the 6 in housing.
 

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Jayo02

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
22
Howdy


You have a in gear switch on the shift plate. The pick shows an Alpha which the Bravo does not have the interrupter. Check this switch and if memory serves you should be able to disconnect it for test. It shows a connection when in neutral



Look for the Blue wire attached to the knock sensor. Follow its path and make sure it does not lie along side the spark plug wires. If this wire lays along side, the voltage in the spark plug wire can signal the PCM it has a knock when it does not.

Techmate is easier to carry around but Diacom can record info while running for review later, and also needs a laptop. Smartcraft fills in many of the issues, but if I had smartcraft, might go with diacom but thats a choice

is there another blue wire other that the one associated with the 4 wire plug attached to the knock sensor ?
 
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