sea horse td 20 help

putputput

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Feb 24, 2004
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i have a td 20 jhonson sea horse i think i was told that it is 1946 to 1949 age range it seems like it wants to run i gathered previous info on this site but now i need more help i have the corect fuel and oil mix i know wat lowwer end gear oil to use. i followed the directions on the face of the fuel tank to start it. But only an ocasional hickup. I think it wants to start but doesnt. Ok so i replaced the 2 spark plugs it seems like im getting spark to plugs i think the spark seems strong enough but im not sure . next is the fuel tank it was ful of varnish and so was the carb and copper lines so i spent the day cleaning all that throughly and soldered a new steel inline filter screen in line. im confedant im getting fuel to the cylinders. ok now to my questions i saw no reed valves in the in take area is that normal for this motor? next there dosnt seem to be signifagant compression. when i spin it there seems to be suction rather than compression ,is that normal? the rings and cylinder walls look clean and shiney and are not scored is that normal? last is wat can i do to make sure the spark and timeing is right and adjustment of the points or other ignition part if any. and last is will it ever run or am i just dreaming thanks for any help yall !!
 

JB

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Mar 25, 2001
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Re: sea horse td 20 help

Ahoy, putputput.<br /><br />Have you ever run this engine, or have you just gotten it and it has never run for you?<br /><br />Go to FAQ and do the troubleshooting steps listed for "Outboard Wont Start".<br /><br />Let us know what you find. Good luck. :)
 

alcan

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

Hi Putput<br />It has been my expirence that there are darn few tds around that won't run or can't be made to run with a little TLC. If they will roll most of the time they will run. These models have sort of a two part carb. The large portion hanging on the side of the block that the fuel line attaches to, that looks like a carb is a portion. This part controls mainly the low speed and primimg operation. Follow the fuel pipe around to the front of the block. Here you will find the high speed needle and a hole shaped as a venturi. This is the high speed portion of the carb. When you push down on the primer/lowspeed knob you should see and hear fuel spraying. CAUTION don't get your face too close here as it will spit fuel in your eyes. Many 2-stroke motors do not use reed valves. The TD models use a rotory type system. The model uses a hole bored in the crank shaft. When the crank turns, it lines up the hole with the intake and thake a drink of fuel and air. Then rotates and closes. If you will post your e-maill address is will spend you some pictures and info that may help. I have to go now, we can talk about ignit latter.
 

Chinewalker

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

The common problems with the TD-20 include wear on the center main which can affect idling. The center main acts as a rotary valve air intake for the idle circuit. The center main can wear, particularly if someone has been wrongly told that the motor can run on 50:1 mix. Motor should run, but may not idle if it's worn.<br /><br />Second common problem is a sunk float cork. If the original cork float has deteriorated, it's possible to retrofit a plastic coated foam-filled Mercury float (Sierra part #18-7208, OEM# 1395-8983) by drilling out the center to fit the float guide in the TD's carb.<br /><br />Third problem is carbon build-up in the exhaust cavity. Back in the day, motor oils didn't burn as cleanly as they do now and they would leave heavy carbon residue. Can also build up in the piston ring grooves. If compression is low, this may be the case. Run a compression check. Motor will run with as low as 60-65 psi in each hole.<br /><br />As for the points - gap them at .020" on the highest point of the cam. High point is usually lined up with the crankshaft keyway. Motor is self-timing after that.<br /><br />Be sure to check for cooling water once you get it fired up. You should be able to put your hand on the exhaust side of the motor without burning yourself...<br />- Scott
 

alcan

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

Ditto to what Chinewalker said. Another tip when dealing with the points on these models. The points have little bakealite sticks that rub on the cam ground into the crank shaft. These sticks actuate the points. Often these sticks will get gummed up and get stuck. This will have an effect on point operation. You will want to be carefull when removing these and cleaning these sticks, they can break fairly easily. The last time I priced a set of these points I felt the price was a tad high. Just a bit more than the motor was worth.
 

putputput

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

wow fast replys thanks guys <br /><br />my email is goonnowthen@hotmail.com<br /><br /> first i will reply to Ancient Mariner no i didnt run it yet and yes i just got it,and no it has never run for me and yes i will check out the trouble shooting page thanks. <br /><br />ok next is Alcan thanks so much i originaly gathered info by seeing one of your messages to a guy that had bought a td 20 for sixty dollars in the news paper and wanted to know the year,oil mix, lower end oil, and his carb float was not working. ok the story behind mine is i got it at an estate sale for ten dollars and it had sat for a few years or more and it was all varnished up so i cleaned all that out and other than an ocasional pop or spit it wont start.<br /><br />so now i took off the fuel tank and the starting teeth and spring set up and then i pulled the cylindrical cover off from over what i think are the points i see electrical stuff but what is this stuff and how do i adjust it or check it ? and is this where the bake o lite peices are and such <br /><br />oh by the way i think my float is still good cause it floated it a bowl of gas i checked it when i had the carb apart. also i see the needel valve and venturi and figuerd they work as you said they would but how many turns in or out should it be set at on start up and then once running. also my email is goonnowthen@hotmail.com <br /><br />also where is the water pump? you may as well tell me the oil mix again ,and the spark plug gap, and chinewalker says .020 gap on the points when i find them. Also the tiny little springs on the starter engageing teeth or wat ever they are are old and look as if they were taken on and off several times before i ever got to them and i wonder if i can make new ones or buy them some where they wont go on again they are bent and broken and to small now from being reused again and again i think. <br /><br />as for Chinewalker i dont think ther is any obstruction in the exaust from carbon cause i feel the air come out the lower end when i spin it. I took the copper tube that is at the bottom of the head off and blew threw it in both directions and there seems to be no obstruction thanks though and thanks for all the other info keep it coming.
 

alcan

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

The first thing to do is test compression in the cylenders. As Chinewalker stated it may be a tad on the low side. Since these motors run a 24:1 fuel/oil ratio or more, sometimes 16:1. The rings can get sticky. Most TDs were used as fishing motors,(they were and still can be dandys). This usually involved a lot of slow speed trolling. To achieve this slow put-put mode most guys tend to richen up the low speed needle (air/fuel ratio). This tends to make an oily, gooey,carbony mess of the rings, combustion and exhaust chambers. This is the area Chinewalker was refering to. If the motors were used on a continual basis this might not be as big a problem. But most guys used the motors for a few seasons and the older the motors got the more they were left hanging in the garage. Some for as long as ten to twenty years now. Quite often all that is needed to free up one of these little greese buckets is a shot of fresh 24:1 in each hole and spin it a time or two. Other times we have to get more agressive and use an engine cleaner/decarb product, one brand is Seafoam.<br /><br /> The cylenrical cover you speak of is the flywheel. The electrical stuff you see is, two magnito coils(they have plug wires protruding from them). Two condencers, and two point sets. There will be a magnito rotor, that slides off the end of the crank shaft. Remove this and you should be able to see the Bakealite rub sticks. With a little carefull investigation you should be able to see how this all works.<br /> Now for the carb. Turn the low speed needle out about 11/2 turns from lightly seated. Be sure it is in fact seated. Sometimes knobs,linkage,etc bind up and give you a false feeling (do not use forse). The high speed needle is about 1/2 to3/4 turn out from lightly seated. This should get you started, you will have to adjust from there.<br /> The copper pipe you removed and blew into is a cooling water pipe. There is a hole in the elbow fitting. This is for the tattle tale,pisser (cooling water indecator). The water pump is located on the prop shaft, behind a cover,in front of the prop. You will need to remove the prop in order to inspect this.<br /> I think you can still get those little springs for the starter?? I think it is easier to make them. Something you'll have to play with.<br /> I'm not sure I can get the info into your hot mail box,it my be too small. I will try.<br /> For a starting procedure try this. Turn on the petcock. You should be able to see the end to the float valve sticking out the top of the float bowl a bit.Push down on the primer/low speed knob, until you get 2-3 good squirts. You should see a few drips of fuel at the high speed orifice(don't over do it, it makes a mess). Set the main speed control to start and pull the rope. If you have more questions just ask. let us know how your making out.
 

putputput

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

i checked the points they are gaped perfect also the bakeo lite sticks are perfect and they are not sticking at all so i reasembeled the fly wheel i havent checked the compression because i dont have a teater handy but i think engine has pretty good compression after all so im ready to try starting it again but one problem is i need to make or buy a set of the tiny springs that go with the pull rope assenmbly i prfer to have the right set so any suggestions where i can get some thanks
 

alcan

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Dec 14, 2001
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Re: sea horse td 20 help

Hi Put<br />You might try Seaway Marine in Seattle Wa they deal in obsolete parts. I haven't forgot about sending that info, my email is messed up right now. I'll send it as soon as possible.
 

putputput

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

i called the place in washington they said they had the springs 6.95 each i called back a few days later and they said some one must have bought them all up and they didnt realize it and they had none to sell me. so they suggested a place in houston texas they want 10.00 each i said forget that. it would cost 30.00 plus UPS shiping i asked the guy if he would send them in an paper envlope because the springs cant weigh more than a penny. he said no he had to use UPS shipping. so i decided i had to find another way so here is where the good part of this adventure begins. Music wire as in piano strings and guitar strings this type of wire is tempered wire and holds its shape and tension even after you bend it so i made my own. this is after hunting for springs at local auto parts stores etc . then i went to orchard hardware and the clerk told me that tempered wire might be the trick to make my own. but the piano wire was to heavy gauge for wat i needed to make the springs. ah ha i said i play guitar and thought the E or B string on my guitar might be just wat i needed and thats it music wire or guitar strings are perfect material to make springs when you cant get the original one at a reasonable price and i figure i spent maybe 50 cents to make the springs hahahahah oh ya havnt started it yet but in the next couple days ill try and i got the email alcan thanks just trying to figuer out how save it enlarge it and print it thanks again
 

alcan

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Re: sea horse td 20 help

Hi Put<br />I am glad to see you figured out the spring delema. Now all you have to do is remember what you used and how you made them. I will try guitar strings next time. I allways end up digging around in my shop until I find something that will work. I tend forget exactly what I used or don't have any more of the same material. Hence I end up digging again. If you have trouble blowing up that info, maybe I can send it larger for you. Let me know.
 

putputput

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Feb 24, 2004
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Re: sea horse td 20 help

ya it have been unable to inlarge the pages ya sent me i tryed several different ways with no luck so if ya want to send it again in larger form that would be good or mail paper copys to me might be another option i havent got around to starting it yet ill let ya know when i do and wat happens thanks
 
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