paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

[aeronutt29]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

I just got done reading all the previous posts on this thread and I'm betting on a bad solenoid. My reason is because the solenoid should make a loud enough click when it engages that you wouldn't need an assistant to hear it. If the starter is not working correctly, the click of the solenoid is very noticeable. If the starter IS working correctly, it makes enough noise that you never notice the click of the solenoid. If you can't hear the click in "no start" mode, it means there isn't one. <br /><br />Since a solenoid is such a simple and cheap part, I'd go ahead and change it just for good measure.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks nutt. i promise i will fix this thing tomorrow. i know it's simple, i just have to stay still for more than 5 minutes to get it done. you've all been very helpful. thanks.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

just went out and fired up the motor in the driveway, let it run for about 10 minutes. turned off, started no prob. ran for a bit more, started again no prob. tried turning it over about 5 more times and it started every time! will take it to the lake again and run it and get my wife to help me tomorrow. i have a bud coming from nanaimo too so it will be traced tomorrow. for sure. no problem right?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

A couple of things...<br /><br />You may have a dead spot on the starter or the brushes could be going bad. Possible time for a rebuild.<br /><br />When you solder a wire that has suffered corrosion you must cut back the insulation to uncover the creaping corrosion inside the wire. I have seen marine wires that look sound on the outside however they corrode back for almost 12".<br /><br />What about the connections in the start switch? Have you checked them? When you get a "no start" condition then at that moment you need to do your voltage checks.<br /><br />Bob

 

[norman158]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

my thought on this was that the solenoid was getting hot and breaking down inside or the pole inside was binding due to heat but you need to check the wire that enguages it too. if im not mistaken there is a neutral start switch in that wire that can also be affected by heat. do the click test first. if no click is heard then start chasing the wire from the ign switch to the solenoid down.you need to have battery voltage at that wire

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks bob. the wires to the ignition are all brand new. i just finfished building this boat at the begining of this summer. the motor is the only used part on the boat. the wire i soldered inside the starter motor is a copper mesh wire with no coating. it was not corroded, sinply broke away from origional mounting pount on positive terminal. i thought of the dead spot at the lake tonight and i turned the starter by hand a few turns to get it out of the dead spot. this did not help. we'll get it folks.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

norman the nuetral kill switch is in the throttle control box. have elimenated that as well. good thought though. man you guys are good. the click in the soleniod will tell all.... just have to get to the "no start" mode again/.

 

[BillP]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

It was mentioned already but check the ign switch. They can do this, especially if it was ever replaced with an automotive type (which is a no no). I jumped the posts on the switch to find a similar problem cause by a high voltage spotlight wired through the accy side of the switch. It was too much voltage for the car switch. A marine switch worked.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks bill, the switch is brand new(as is everything else in the boat)and is a marine outboard switch mounted in dash with push in electric choke. i'm pretty sure it's ok but will check it as well.

 

[Crupi]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

hey still havent fixed this boat.. so u say u solderd sdome new brushes on it? i rebuilt starters and alternators for 120 yrs i bet u have a bad armatur in the starter motor and when she gets hot it opens up wont let it do any thing ... if u had the starter off before i would take it back off open it up where the brushes ride on look at that real good see if all the solder still connects the windings to the connections on the gold colr part where the brushes ride.. i bet money u need a starter

 

[Crupi]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

also i f u wanna good check and ur by urself when it wont start u can take the hood off get a set of jumper cables and just yuse the positive led and go from battery positive r soliond pos and jump starter stright with 12 volts and sewe if it starts if nothing u know its the starter

 

[Reel Appeal]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

Naughty,<br /> Sloopy poses an interesting question.What type of solder did you use?I use to work at a hardware store and know that some types of plumbing solder do not carry electrical current well.Should be using "electrical solder" on that connection.(usually fine guage).<br />Any old solder just don't get it....

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

now i just learned something... i bet i used plumbing solder. it was pretty thick gauge. it is raining here today so i might as well take the starter motor out again and recheck it. tomorrow i will buy a new positive post and remove that issue. it must be the culprit because i have never had this problem until i soldered that wire back on the post. worked for a bit then started doing this.all wiring and battery, switch, controls, etc are brand new... they sould be fine.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks crupi, i think i'll rip the thing out again today and give it a good look. the bushings seem a little worn as there is guite a bit of play in the armature. could this be it?

 

[Crupi]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

play is not good either but what iam talking about is there is solderwhere the brushes ride look and u will see it in the cracks its to connect the windings of the armature alot of time if it gets hot it will melt the solder away causing a open circucit.. why did u change the positive post it melted? if so stop playing with this boat and get a starter and have fun

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

problem solved... i think. just checked it at the lake and jumped straight to the starter when in "no start mode" starter turned. this would say it's the soleniod. have one ordered and will be here tomorrow. will let you guys know the outcome. thanks to all, especially jb.

 

[suzukidave]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

if it's not the solenoid you may want to think about the starter because jumping to the starter may just have avoided a voltage drop from the wiring and given the faulty starter the extra juice it needed to turn over. I had the problem you describe on a 78 VW bus automatic and it was a chronic design flaw (they were never meant to be automatics). The starter was near to the auto transmission which would heat up on long drives - the starter armature would break down from the heat and then would not turn over, especially warm. Eventually you needed a new starter but in the mean time for a while you could get it going by either tapping the starter housing lightly with a hammer with ignition on or else jumping straight to the battery which avoided the voltage drop from all the wires. A relay system to shorten the wires helped also but the only solution eventually was a new starter (took us 4 starters to cross the continent and back).

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks dave, you make a good pointhowever in my case it weems the othr side of the soleniod is about a 1/2 inch away from post to post. how could there be that much voltage drop across the soleniod? when i tooched the battery lead to the starter to veryify it was the soleniod i only touched the starter side of the oleniod on the post. proves to me it is the soleniod... plus it would not click. if it was the starter i would hear the click.<br /><br />i have installed new soleniod and am crossing my fingers it solves the problem as i am in a poker run this weekend. not the end of the world, as i still have a trusty pull cord!<br /><br />if i win the poker run i'm splittin the cash evenly with moose, sloopy and jb.

 

[durk187]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

hay is the poker run on lake ontario?

 

[nickster]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

NBN I have one question Is this motor pumping addequte water?