Starter motor won't turn flywheel

[aweiss44]

have a 2002 mercury 200HP EFI. put barely over 25 hours on it last season(brand new engine). Used it 4 times this year. Went to start it last week and the engine wouldnt turn. Had someone turn the key while i watched the starter motor, and the gear is popping up to the flywheel but not turning it. any help on this?

 

[b.gagnon]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

can you turn it by hand?

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Low Battery?

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

i jsut went down. can turn it by hand easily when the plugs are out, quite a bit harder when the plugs are in.

 

[b.gagnon]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

check for a good ground, and volts at bat...

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

if its not the battery, any other ideas?

 

[quantumleap]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Did you fog the cyls. before storing?

 

[JB]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Go to Engine FAQ section, AWeiss.<br /><br />Do the starter troubleshooting in the "Outboard Wont Start" article.<br /><br />Then go to General Outboard and try the Draft for FAQ. . . posting.<br /><br />You probably have a bad connection in the high current circuit.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

ok. so i went down and tried some of that diagnostic you mentioned. first, is there any place that the Neutral safety switch is located generally? or am i going to have to try and trace this wire through the boat? second where would this bad connection in the high voltage circuit be that you're talking about. i.e. what would i be checking for hte high voltage circuit? and finally, me solenoid is much much different from the FAQ version. if you were to take + , the four ends would be my connections. the top one is a thin yelow wire with a dark red stripe, that goes of into a large bundle of wires. the right post has a this yellow wire w/ a dark strip that goes to the solenoid on the starter. the bottom terminal has a thin black wire that runs to the ground. the left terminal recieves the positive line from teh battery, sends out the positive line to the solenoid on the starter, and has two smaller wires connected, each of those having two red wire joined together. all this is making me dizzy, any help with this? your help is greatly greatly appreciated.<br /><br />btw, im picking up a digital volt meter this afternoon, just to double check everything. thanks again.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Howdy.<br /><br />It is the high current circuit that is probably at fault. There is no high voltage circuit.<br /><br />The sort of fault you are looking for will be a low resistance in a connection of a large cable (wire) from the battery to the solenoid, solenoid to the starter motor or engine block to the battery ground cable. That low resistance can prevent enough current flow through the starter motor to develop full torque.<br /><br />The checks you want to run are voltage measurements on big wires (cables) with the starter engaged.<br /><br />The FAQ article offers tests and expected voltages.<br /><br />Your starter engages. Forget about the ignition/starter switch, the neutral safety switch and the solenoid.<br /><br />Both articles are intentionally generic. If you need specifics of your engine you need a Repair Manual.<br /><br />If you don't understand what the tests mean or how to do them remove your battery cables and all other big cables. Thoroughly clean all connections (both sides) and reinstall them.<br /><br />Let us know what you find, and good luck.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

ok, so i took off almost every cable bigger than 12 gauge and cleaned the connections, even though all of them on the engine looked clean(engine was barely used. replaced two battery terminals and cleaned all of the connecting wires. cleaned the battery selector switch contacts too. nothing.<br />did the starter test with DVM. witht eh black probe on the batter and the red on teh starter case with the starter engaged i read 0,0v. with the pos. probe on teh pos. terminal and the neg probe on the connection stud i got 0.27v. jsut to be sure i cleaned terminal #8 (from the diag.) and terminal #7(which is the same as #6 on mine), and cleaned off the positive battery cables again.<br />when i was all done and left for the afternoon the batteries read 12.2v and 12.24 volts. should i take them off and try to charge them? <br />i asked the last person to use the boat how it ran the last time used, they said it was ok but a few times it didnt start up right away like normal. i don't know about that fogging the cyclinders like someone mentioned earlier. would that be causing this? ugh, getting frazzled over this, thanks for everyone's help.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Sounds like you have eliminated wiring connection problems, 44.<br /><br />What did the battery voltage do when you engaged the starter? Did it stay up at 12+ volts or did it drop to 9 or 10 volts? .27 volts seems too small of a voltage drop from the battery to the starter stud at the current the starter should be drawing.<br /><br />Could be that either the battery is failing under load (drops to 6-8 volts) or the starter has a low resistance failure internally (battery only drops to 11.5 volts or thereabout).<br /><br />You are making good progress, 44. Hang in there and you will win.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

oooooook. here we go. some tests i wanted to try were delayed because it started raining on me, but here's what i got. with no load on them, battery 1 and 2 read 12.25 volts. with the starter engaged battery 1 read 11.3 volts at its lowest point, and battery 2 steadily kept dropping, it had reached approximately 6 volts when i stopped turning the key. i hten put my positive probe on the both switch on the back of my battery selector(where the engine pos. cable is hooked up) and my neg. probe on the negative post of my #1 battery (where the engine neg. cable is hooked up) i then engaged the starter and read 11.34 volts at the lowest point. <br /><br />i didn't like that way battery #2 acted so i toook it off, and it's charging right now. does any of this help? Could it be that drop that's preventing it from starting?<br /><br />also, what would that fogging the cyclinders have to do with it? just wondering.<br />THANKS agian.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Battery #2 may be history, AWeiss, but battery #1 should be able to start the engine alone.<br /><br />I still don't think you are getting enough current through the starter. Jump the #1 battery (+) to the starter hot stud, and the (-) to the engine block or starter case. Use heavy jumper cables. If you still don't have enough starter torque to spin her over I suspect the starter needs overhaul or replacement.<br /><br />I see no reason why fogging should affect the starting unless there is so much oil in the cylinders that it is causing a hydraulic lock.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

ok. dont have my jumper cables right now, so i didnt gdo exactly what you said. instead i tried hooking up the neg and pos connections from the engine right to the battery. that didn't work. then i tried adding on one of those boosters(used for jumping a car) directly to the strarter case and its positive terminal. that didnt work. i even tried turning the flywheel while those two were hooked up and turning teh key and it still wouldnt turn the flywheel. yet when i let go of the key, and the gear drops, its spinning. any more ideas?

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

If I were you I'd take the battery out of the equation....<br />I think it's low in charge....<br /><br />Charge one of the batteries fully and retest...

 

[Merc90HPnewbie]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Take the declining battery out, even if the other one is good, when you crank the starter, it may be trying to both spin the starter AND charge the other battery (If you parallel two batteries with no isolation diodes, the higher voltage one tries to 'charge' the lower voltage one to reach eqiuilibrium... this is why some electrical devices carry the warning "replace all batteries at the same time, do not mix old and new batteries")<br /><br />I have the same problem where my pinion gear goes up, spins the flywheel a bit, then falls back down. It was driving me crazy trying to figure out what the problem is, luckily it usually stays 'up' long enough so I can start the engine.<br />Sometimes it falls down (I can hear it, crank-crank-crank-WHIRRRR) where the whirring is the starter spinning without contacting the flywheel. I've given up for now since I can start the engine anyway. At some point I'll have to take a closer look.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

well batteries are charging right now still. gonna try it this afternoon. Yet yesterday i was trying without those batteries in parallel, with ony one battery at a time. and the one i was using was the better of the two. any input JB?

 

[JB]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

Do the jumper cable thing, AWeiss. Let's prove that the starter motor is good.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[aweiss44]

Re: Starter motor won't turn flywheel

hooked up the engine battery cables to a fully charged battery, over 13 volts. had exact same voltage at the battery that i did at the starter. didnt work. i even took out the spark plugs, thinking maybe that would make it easier to turn the flywheel. still nothin. startin to go crazy being stuck on land....<br />thanks for the help