Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

[Dom]

I recently took my Merc 1150 in for service. The shift shaft seal needed replacing and the impeller was shot. I picked up the boat and of course took it out on the water. When I put into forward gear, the boat went in reverse, and vice versa. Is this an simple mistake made by the technician during repair. Is it something that is simple to fix? Maybe he attached the linkage backwards....PLEASE HELP.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Yes it is simple to fix. It is also pretty sloppy for it to get out the door that way. <br /><br />There is no real way to assemble the linkage backwards. What likely hapened was that the shift shaft was 180 degrees out of phase when the lower unit went back up. He should be able to fix it ASAP and while you wait and watch. 20 minute deal.<br /><br />I always put them up in neutral because there is a definate "snick" that holds the shift shaft in the neutral spot.<br /><br />I'm fuzzy on if there was is way to actually assmeble the shft shaft itself in the lower unit with the part that runs the "clutch" set up backwards. I don't have one apart to look at this minute. But I'd bet my 1st scenario is the likely thing that happened. <br /><br />-W

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Thanks Clams Canino. This guy has been fixing outboards for 30 years and is very reputable in Spokane. I can't believe that he missed that. I am having him fix....Kind of a bummer when you drive an hour to the lake and almost run the boat up the ramp. (plus you have the wife and kid with you!!!)<br /><br />I appreciate it.

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Okay...Clams...hopefully you have some input here. I just called and spoke with the guy this morning. He said that he is confused on why it would be doing this. He said that he never removed the shift shaft, he just replaced the seal AND on the Mercury 1150's they are fixed so it couldn't be 180 degrees out.??? He said that he didn't do anything to make it do this..but he is going to check it out. Do you have any other ideas on what may have happened during repair. This guy tried to suggest that maybe it has always done this? (which definetely is not true) I use the boat 4 or 5 times a week. I think I would have known. Thanks again.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Well, anyone can have an off day too.<br /><br />And keep that guy, if he's been doing it for 30 years, he at least knows your motor cold.<br /><br />-W

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Hmmmm<br /><br />Here's the "always did it test". With the cowling off the shift cable should pull the arm in the outboard FORWARD to go into fwd and BACK for reverse. In other words when you go to put it in FWD the shift cable gets SHORTER. <br /><br />As for the lower unit, neutral has a definate "snick". From there (looking down at the shift shaft) a slight rotation clockwise puts it in fwd (verified by propshaft clicking when rotated clockwise) and a slight rotation counter-clockwise from the "neutral snick" will put it in reverse - verified that the prop shaft won't readily turn either way.<br /><br />In order for this action to be reversed, SOMETHING has to be 180 degrees out of phase. <br /><br />I just looked at the linkage and I can't see where the arm would be long enough to let the parts in the powerhead get 180 out, and if they did - the bottom carb seems like it would be in the way.<br /><br />That means either your controller OR something at the lower unit is 180 out. <br /><br />The controller speaks to "always did it" unless there was a way it could suddenly do a 180 in the mechanism. For the record, you push the control handle forward to go forward.<br /><br />I havn't had a lower unit apart for anything past a waterpump since LAST season. So I hesitate to go much further. <br /><br />I *know* that I've rotated a shift shaft 360 degrees by hand before looking for the snick. I'm just not sure if you can get a shift at all 180 out. <br /><br />I'll say this much... you have my interest now. <br /><br />-W<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by Dom:<br /> Okay...Clams...hopefully you have some input here. I just called and spoke with the guy this morning. He said that he is confused on why it would be doing this. He said that he never removed the shift shaft, he just replaced the seal AND on the Mercury 1150's they are fixed so it couldn't be 180 degrees out.??? He said that he didn't do anything to make it do this..but he is going to check it out. Do you have any other ideas on what may have happened during repair. This guy tried to suggest that maybe it has always done this? (which definetely is not true) I use the boat 4 or 5 times a week. I think I would have known. Thanks again.

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

I like that "always did it test" I will definitely keep that in my pocket for ammo if needed. <br /><br />He was pretty perplexed....so hopefully he can figure out what went wrong. Maybe the "snick" you are speaking about is the problem. <br /><br />Thanks again for your help with this. It is very helpful.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Yanno... I just looked at the exploded diagrams and I don't see how it could be made to shift fully into both forward an reverse with the shift shaft 180 out of phase. <br /><br />As for the linkage, the cable connects to a long arm that connects to an aluminum arm about 2-3 inches long. That aluminum arm should be on the same side of the motor as the cables. I don't THINK it could work the other way, but if the mech is long enough AND it all clears the carb, having that backwards could reverse the shift.<br /><br />Only problem with this idea (assuming it could even work) is that none of that up there had to come apart to drop the lower unit to fix the seal. Ditto the shift cable.<br /><br />I can see why he's perplexed, I'm getting perplexed just looking at it. Just trust that he means well and will get to the bottom of it.<br /><br />And remember - if your controller is extending the cable for forward and pulling it for reverse. It's your controller - that simple.<br /><br />I'd go look at a real lower, but they are all down in the storage building, Jean is here, and I hate getting soaking wet unless there's aboat and a rope somehow involved.<br /><br />-W<br /><br /><br />-W

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Clams..I truly appreciate all of this help. Your knowledge is mind bending.<br /><br />Okay, let me make sure I understand your last post. From what you can see from the diagrams, this "most likely" has nothing to do with the Lower Unit being dropped and raised back up incorrectly?<br /><br />If indeed it is the controller, than do you happen to know why that would have gotten out of synch while being repaired? Is it an easy fix...How would I go about reversing the 180 out in the controller if that is the problem?<br /><br />Sorry...a little green with all of this. As you can probably tell.<br /><br />Thanks

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

No, your problem is mind-bending. <br /><br />What I'm saying is that the *one* thing that can happen when you *just* raise and lower it up is for the shift shaft to get "turned around" - I'm just not sure it would work that way - and surely not properly enough to get both gears and a neutral to work.<br /><br />The linkage stuff was just thinking out loud...<br /><br />If it's a Mercury brand controller I don't think it *can* work beckwards. I know that some aftermarket controllers can but usually you need to go into them and manipulate the cable position or something to reverse the throw. I'm not sure how one could just do this all by itself.<br /><br />Are you sure everything worked "normally" in both fwd and reverse during your backward outing? With a running neutral?<br /><br />Any other details at ALL you might be leaving out - like a new prop or something?? <br /><br />Feel free to jump in anytime (anyone).<br /><br />I'm running out of clues.<br /><br />-W

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

When I took the boat on the water Saturday, it ran fine. Went into nuetral and went in forward and in reverse...(just backwards). No new prop, and no new control unit. The only work that he did for me was fixed the trim pump, replaced the trim rams with rebuilt ones, gave it a tune up (cleaned the plugs) and cleaned the distributer cab which was full of Carbon. He replaced the impeller, shift shaft seal and refilled lower unit with oil. I was on my way. <br /><br />As far as it being like that, there is NO possible way since I have had the boat for 3 years and use it 4-5 times a week. I can't think of any more possible clues.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Pray he finds the issue..... <br /><br />-W

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Thanks again CC. <br /><br />Any body else out there have any ideas??<br /><br />This is to strange to be true.

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Ed Mc. <br />Petty Officer 1st Class <br />Member # 36854 knows about this issue (Among others) I think due to the spline on the lower shift shaft, you can re-assemble it backwards.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Yes see what Ed thinks about this? I can't visualise how one could remove that shaft and have it come down anything but "right" unless you openend up the lower unit and pro-actively did soemthing with the shift cam, and even then I'm skeptical. If this rain ever stops tomorrow, I'm gonna grab a lower from the storage bldg and abuse it a bit. <br /><br />-W

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

I may be out my league here, Clams... but I thought that the small spline (Lower shift shaft) protruding out of the L/U when removed can be accidently shifted and then when the L/U is re-connected the gears are out of whack.<br />I would drop the L/U, turn the splined rod so it's in neutral, then shift the shifter into neutral. It should be right then...

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Oh we agree that can happen. I'm just not convinced it can "work properly" 180 degrees out of phase as his appears to be doing.<br /><br />-W

 

[Bomber13]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

Dom:<br />It sounds like Clams and Unicorn really know what they are talking about but I just wanted to through this out there.<br />If the cables where disconected at the engine during this maintainence, could this have caused some slack in the cable inside of the control box causing the cable to come of a pully? When you ran it after you got it back, was ther any slop in the handle?<br />I do not have nearly the experience that Clams and Unicorn have but this just came to mind as I was reading this post.<br />Good Luck.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

The cables should not have been removed.<br /><br />1. Unbolt and drop lower unit<br />2. Remove shift-shaft bushing with special tool.<br />3. Replace seal<br />4. Replace bushing<br />5. Check / replace pump impeller<br />6. Replace lower unit<br /><br />That outta be the whole storyboard. <br /><br />-W

 

[Dom]

Re: Forward is Reverse and Reverse is Forward

I dropped the boat back off to him. He told me that he did not remove the cables but just changed the seal...They are dropping the lower unit to find out what happened. Hopefully they will find out what happened. <br /><br />This has got to be the most responsive and informative forum that I have ever been too. You guys ROCK. HOPEFULLY soon I will be hearing that beautiful hiss when I pop a beer and get this ol' lady where she belongs...On the water.