Starter issue

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WellcraftSportsman23

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So I have a 2000 MerCruiser 5.0 EFI set up. I live in New Jersey and winterized it properly and started it up about a month ago and about a week ago. Everything was fine oil pressure was good water temperature was good no issues no knocking nothing. Yesterday I went to start it and I got a click. Battery is fully charged, so I figured it might be the starter solenoid. I jumped the solenoid and still heard the click coming from the starter. Decided to pull all the plugs. No water or anything in any of the cylinders however, one of the spark plugs was totally smashed flat. With the spark plugs out, I tried manually turning the engine with no movement. I turned the key to use the starter, and I still got the same clicking which is more of a bang and no movement again. The boat has oil and there is no water in it. My question is, could it be a bad starter? That’s not allowing the flywheel to spin? I also was messing around with the throttle cables however the propeller moves freely, which makes me believe it’s in neutral and the fact that it’s trying to start also leads me to the same conclusion. My biggest concern is that somehow it seized, but I don’t understand why because it ran the last couple days. With that spark plug being smashed, I’m wondering if it’s something that’s been like that all last year and I just never noticed. The engine never ran rough. Any help would be appreciated.
 

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ESGWheel

ESGWheel

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Based on your symptoms – frozen engine and smashed up plug – it sure sounds like you dropped a valve or had some other internal catastrophe. Pull the valve cover off the side with the smashed plug and look at the tops of the valve stems for that cylinder. Are they still there?
 
ESGWheel

ESGWheel

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Another thought: try turning the engine backwards. This assumes there is a physical block (like a dropped valve) that precludes the engine from turning over further in its normal rotation (i.e. that cylinder’s piston is on the upstroke but cannot go up because of a dropped valve is preventing it). But should be able to turn it backwards (piston coming down).
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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ESGWheel. When I tried to turn it over, I used a ratchet on the center bold on the pulley that is bolted to the harmonic balancer. I did try to go the other way but it just began loosening the bolt. Any ideas? I tried by hand bit felt frozen. What is killing me is that it ran fine last week. No strange noises or anything. I did have to work on the shift cable but the drive spins freely and it usually will not start if it’s in gear. I plan on pulling the riser and manifold this weekend and then the valve cover.

Would be able to see damage with valve cover off or do I need to pull the head?
 
Bt Doctur

Bt Doctur

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Is the outdrive seized instead? Remove the V cover and look, it you find loose spring and collars you have a dropped valve and need to pull the head for any repairs
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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Bt Doctur said:
Is the outdrive seized instead? Remove the V cover and look, it you find loose spring and collars you have a dropped valve and need to pull the head for any repairs
Click to expand...
Could the boat be in gear and the bypass allowing it to start? When it started last week, it went in forward and reverse with no troubles. How could it seize in a week?
 
Scott Danforth

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pull the drive and try it.

however with smashed plugs, my guess is the motor is coming out.

WellcraftSportsman23 said:
When I tried to turn it over, I used a ratchet on the center bold on the pulley that is bolted to the harmonic balancer.
Click to expand...
you should never try to turn a chevrolet engine over from the crank bolt. the threads are too small being sized just to hold the damper in, and you will just strip out the threads in the crank, requiring a very expensive repair.

always turn over from the belts, or the damper pulley or the flywheel. or pull the damper and use a crank socket.
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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So I took the valve cover off and everything looked OK however there was a little bit of milky oil in there, which is making me think I need a new head gasket. Upon further inspection when pulling off the manifold ID determine that the exhaust valve on one of the cylinders Was gone. That must’ve been what smashed the spark plug. I will be pulling the head and hoping that there is no major damage to the cylinder the walls or any other parts of the casting.
 
ESGWheel

ESGWheel

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WellcraftSportsman23 said:
... the exhaust valve on one of the cylinders was gone.
Click to expand...
That is unfortunate but frankly what we were all thinking. Hopefully there is no damage to the piston and cylinder. How this happened is a bit of a mystery, but the milky oil may be providing a clue.

Step 1, as you are already doing, is to pull that head and inspect. Post results and pictures.
  • Tip: use sandwich or larger zip lock bags to keep parts organized and mark bag with a sharpie for what it is / where it came from.
And then if you are willing, you can get this fixed and this forum will be happy to help you thru that process, saving a ton of money and creating bragging rights in the future when you are back on the water. :)

Note: step 2 will be to determine where that water was getting into the oil, so keep that in mind as you pull stuff apart…..

Good luck!
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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ESGWheel, thank you for the support. I have noticed over the years a little bit of that milky residue in the valve cover. Whenever I change the oil, the oil is normal and does not have any water in it. I just assumed it was condensation and some moisture that had gotten in there. Obviously I must’ve been mistaken. I will continue to post pictures and ask multiple questions for everybody’s help.
Question one is it possible for me to just put a new exhaust valve in if everything is OK? I’m assuming the right course of action is to put in all new valves however this is a 25 year-old engine and I’m not looking to break the bank. I’m assuming new head gaskets on both sides is the right way to go, but I’m not sure if I need to do an entire recondition of the head. Any help would be appreciated.
 
ESGWheel

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Good to know oil changes are ‘clean’ so agree probable condensation. When I initially read "milky" however the advent of the dropped valve made me think there is a possible connection.

Frankly I am still unable to connect the dots of a previously running engine and at the next startup it is locked up. The odds of dropping a valve with the last rotation of the engine when last shutting down just seems improbable. Others may have better ideas….

While my approach is making it good as new, I totally appreciate the constraints we all face. Its one of the reasons I am on this forum. So yes, can do the minimum required and it will probably last a long time.

What that minimum is depends on what you find when you pull the head.

And not sure of your situation but if you have kids and are enjoying time together on the water or perhaps just you and your spouse enjoying the boating time together, please do not discount that in your equation of ‘cost’. Like that commercial about “priceless”. :)
 
Grub54891

Grub54891

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At minimum the head should be brought to a machine shop and have it re-conditioned. Best to do both heads at the same time. But if the piston is damaged enough the engine is coming out for rebuilding.
 
nola mike

nola mike

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A new head doesn't cost much, a junkyard head is almost free. Timewise you're on the water the next day if no block damage
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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ESGWheel said:
Good to know oil changes are ‘clean’ so agree probable condensation. When I initially read "milky" however the advent of the dropped valve made me think there is a possible connection.

Frankly I am still unable to connect the dots of a previously running engine and at the next startup it is locked up. The odds of dropping a valve with the last rotation of the engine when last shutting down just seems improbable. Others may have better ideas….

While my approach is making it good as new, I totally appreciate the constraints we all face. Its one of the reasons I am on this forum. So yes, can do the minimum required and it will probably last a long time.

What that minimum is depends on what you find when you pull the head.

And not sure of your situation but if you have kids and are enjoying time together on the water or perhaps just you and your spouse enjoying the boating time together, please do not discount that in your equation of ‘cost’. Like that commercial about “priceless”. :)
Click to expand...
I am 100% with you and that I am confused at how it works and then the next week it just stopped. When it started up after this winter, I ran it two different times at least a week apart. There was no knocking there was no tapping there was nothing. It sounded great. I never run it more than 1000 RPMs when it’s on the muffs so it wasn’t even like I was revving it up with minimal oil flow. One of the things I read was that the spark plug could’ve burned too hot over time and weed, but I still don’t understand. This week I’m gonna pull the head and we’ll find out more. I will keep posting.
Posted a picture of the bad port. Top part is still in the spring. Bottom is gone. Piston seems to be at top of rotation.
 

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ESGWheel

ESGWheel

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Oh, thanks for that pic. No good. It looks like that milky is more than just a condensation issue. That valve stem is busted in two vs what I was suspecting (broken spring dropping a valve). I now think it’s due to rust that caused the valve to part its ways. Looking forward to the pics with the head off.
 
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WellcraftSportsman23

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Pulled the port side manifold and riser and milky in the valve area on that side aswell. No rust or anything in the exhaust area. Pulled the wire harness off and all other auxiliary stuff. Next will be the distributer, the intake and finally the heads. Really hoping that valve stem is just in the cylinder and keeping the piston from completing its upward motion.
 
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