12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

[newbie19]

so i got this 12" sears gamefisher jon boat, 1973 i think. and i love it but it needs some work and i know next to nothing about this stuff, but i'm willing to learn and put the work in! Just need the instructions!

i bought it knowing it had a crack in the bottom front, which he had me coming over and strip the old fiberglass and resin off then put down 3 new sheets of glass and load them down with this stuff.

the glass and resin are from lowes, this stuff will work right?


here are some pictures of the crack after i worked on it

you can see there is a whole there where that white spot is, he said it would be find

 

[oops!]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

hi !

welcome to iboats !

we need a little more information.

like how did you prepair the surface for glassing?

and did you take a break between layers of glassing?....if you did....how long.

or did you lay them on all at once?

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

here is the inside of the boat where that crack is, as you can see some resin leaked through. which i figured was good.

here are some more pictures of the boat

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

hi !

welcome to iboats !

we need a little more information.

like how did you prepair the surface for glassing?

and did you take a break between layers of glassing?....if you did....how long.

or did you lay them on all at once?

Hey! thank ya! wow that was fast! And I was hoping you (oops) would see this somehow but dang first response is you, awesome! and yes i will give more info right away i was just trying to post all the pictures first (says you can only post 6 at a time doing it with the IMG code) so i will finish that up real quick then give the info, one moment

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

she is almost as excited to go fishing as i am. i was thinking maybe a piece of carpeted wood right there to cover up where she is sitting like a deck type thing, but i don't know if that would be to heavy or something?

more pics

would a patch of fiberglass cover this up?

looks like one of the seats broke off on the side at one time and someone did a quick fix

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

hi !

welcome to iboats !

we need a little more information.

like how did you prepair the surface for glassing?

and did you take a break between layers of glassing?....if you did....how long.

or did you lay them on all at once?

Alrighty, to answer your questions,
if by prepair the surface for glassing you're talking about cleaning it and really making sure all of the previous chunks of resin were gone, not very long, he just wanted most of it gone but wanted something to stay so it had a gritty feel so the fiberglass had something to stick it. and next to no cleaning. 0 sanding.

we did take small breaks inbetween layering, i wanna say less then 10 minutes though, we did it out side and it wasn't hot but it wasn't cool and he said the stuff was sitting really quickly (we had to through out our first mix because it got hard/chunky in the bucket)

then it sat over night. he said he was gonna sand it the next morning but didn't. so i just took it home

i was thinking of giving it a really good cleaning (what kinda soap do i clean it with?) then just doing 1 or 2 layers of fiberglass on the whole bottom and inner and outer transom. there are a few nicks and stuff here and there so thats what i was thinking would be best.

the guy also told me to put some truck bed liner on the inside and outside, i'm fine with doing it on the outside since sometimes it might have to be dragged a little(we dont have a trailer) but wasn't sure about the inside.
like i said i would like to do that piece of carpeted wood for the dog to be on and not sliding around cause she cant grip to anything

but before doing any of this wanted to know what the experts thought would be best.

 

[Jon Sob]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

Hi newbie ...... welcome to iboats. I wouldn't put on any more layers until the experts chime in. I am sure oops! will be back to give you some excellent advise. I am no expert but I think that there is wax in that resin which means that it has to be sanded between layers. You should find that out before you go any further. Good luck with your project.

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

i was also thinking about cutting the back bench out and installing a piece of wood back there to sit on. unless you think it %100 needs that foam, or that taking that bench and foam out will make it off balance or something

 

[oops!]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

im typing......ill be a sec.....thanks for the pics

 

[oops!]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

Hi newbie ...... welcome to iboats. I wouldn't put on any more layers I think that there is wax in that resin which means that it has to be sanded between layers. You should find that out before you go any further. Good luck with your project.

thanks jon .......you are absolutely correct.

ok,,,,,before we get to the deck / bench ideas.....lets go over the glass repair.

i am very concerned here.

as jon mentioned, the resin you are using contains wax. wax is a release agent for fiberglass resin. that means that if you do a layer, and wait a bit, the resin will start to cure (like it did in your bucket) then add another layer....the wax in the resin will start to come to the surface and not let the new layer bond correctly...
it may look and feel like its done correctly,,,,,but it is very very weak.

the other issue i am worried about, is the prep........a good glass job depends on the first bond to the substraight ( hull)
if the surface is not prepped and cleaned properly, the new layer of glass cannot grab what it needs to.

but before i give any recommendations....

one quick question.

what was the first layer of glass applied to the hull......

was it a woven type of cloth?.....or was it a kind of a bunch of hairs squished into a matt looking thingy , that came apart after a few minits on the hull?

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

Hi newbie ...... welcome to iboats. I wouldn't put on any more layers until the experts chime in. I am sure oops! will be back to give you some excellent advise. I am no expert but I think that there is wax in that resin which means that it has to be sanded between layers. You should find that out before you go any further. Good luck with your project.

thank you sir

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

it was woven, like this.

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

if you scroll up to the top, in the first few pictures there is a close up of the patches. you might be able to tell a little more from that i'm not sure?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

The other thing about Kingfisher boats is Some of them were made with a ABS plastic laminate material that Polyester resin has a problem adhering to. Not sure if this model is one of those or not. Does the Material that's been applied seem to be sticking well? You might think I'm nuts but beating on it mildly with a rubber mallet should tell you if it's going to stick or delam on you. If the person that applied the patch did not use CSM then it will prollly delam especially since the prep was not done properly. Cloth without mat does not work with Poly resin. My other observation is that the crack definetly needs to be done on the inside as well. As OOPS has already made reference to, everyone here on the forum always recommends using unwaxed resin to ensure proper adhesion. I caution again about the Kingfisher boats and the ABS plastic thing. It is a possibility.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

These boats were mass produced to a very low price point, when new they were sort of OK, but they aged rapidly and deteriorated to the point where they really weren't worth fixing.

The glass and resin used was cheap and low in strength, that's why everything is cracking and coming apart. Most of these boats are taken to the garbage dump when they get this bad.

Don't take all this the wrong way though, it can still be put back together and used, it just may take more time and money than it's worth.

There were several of these boats totally rebuilt on this site a few years ago, it might be a difficult search, but people here are very good at finding old threads so someone may supply a link.

From what you've said, all of the work done so far needs to be removed. If you do decide to fix it don't do anything else until you get further instructions.

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

The other thing about Kingfisher boats is Some of them were made with a ABS plastic laminate material that Polyester resin has a problem adhering to. Not sure if this model is one of those or not. Does the Material that's been applied seem to be sticking well? You might think I'm nuts but beating on it mildly with a rubber mallet should tell you if it's going to stick or delam on you. If the person that applied the patch did not use CSM then it will prollly delam especially since the prep was not done properly. Cloth without mat does not work with Poly resin. My other observation is that the crack definetly needs to be done on the inside as well. As OOPS has already made reference to, everyone here on the forum always recommends using unwaxed resin to ensure proper adhesion. I caution again about the Kingfisher boats and the ABS plastic thing. It is a possibility.

I'm not sure if Kingfisher and Gamefisher are the same thing? but either way i'll take your word for it. haha, don't think i'll be needing to do any beating with the rubber hammer since i know CSM wasn't the first mate used.
Guess i'll be taking all that off then??.....If thats what you guys say is best. Its what needs to be done.

Unwaxed resin should be available at a local marine stores or something right?

 

[newbie19]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

These boats were mass produced to a very low price point, when new they were sort of OK, but they aged rapidly and deteriorated to the point where they really weren't worth fixing.

The glass and resin used was cheap and low in strength, that's why everything is cracking and coming apart. Most of these boats are taken to the garbage dump when they get this bad.

Don't take all this the wrong way though, it can still be put back together and used, it just may take more time and money than it's worth.

There were several of these boats totally rebuilt on this site a few years ago, it might be a difficult search, but people here are very good at finding old threads so someone may supply a link.

From what you've said, all of the work done so far needs to be removed. If you do decide to fix it don't do anything else until you get further instructions.

I'm not trying to rebuild anything huge or install electrical switches,
just asking advice for repairing an old jon boat so it safely stays afloat for some fishing trips

i have seen a couple of rebuilt boats of this model. starting at WAY past garbage dumb stage, and ending safe, modified, an all prettied up too.

i'm not gonna get mine like that,
but i don't mind having a fix'it'up project.
and i understand what you are saying, it might be a bigish one, thats fine

thank you for your input, ALL input and thoughts are welcome and appreciated.
and yes i am def. waiting for further, hopefully detailed instructions

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

Possibly or you can order online here.

www.uscomposites.com

 

[oops!]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

hi...

sorry....i had to nip away for a bit....

uh.....ondrvr is correct......sorry.....it all has to come off.

if you dont take it all off and re do it....here is what COULD happen.
while out on the water,,,,,enjoying the day.....the repair de lams over a little use..a little movement in the boat....un even pressure on the repair area......and it starts to seep.....not much.... just a bit.....you dont pay it any attention....a little more movement in the boat, possibly from moving a tackle box... and the repair splits....now the hole is a gap......water is flooding in......you head for shore. the pressure on the hull rips the glass work from the hull, and you totally fill with water in 5 seconds....

you are swimming.......that fast.

i dont have much time right now. so if i cant finish this post.....ill catch the rest in the morning....

first off......take a grinder and grind the new stuff off....all of it....dont worry if you go thru the hull....just get rid of the waxed resin, and the cloth that was added......grind a good 6 inches around any resin that was added....

when you grind off the new stuff.....and get to the glass that makes up the hull......stop at the old glass...make sure there is no resin but just the glass.

after you get the out side done....take acetone and clean the area.

mix up some unwaxed resin ....use MEKP at 2% in the resin.....just mix up about 300 ml....(a beer can worth)

using a fuzzy roller....roll that on to the hull....roll it in good...
add one layer of 1.5 oz csm to the resined area....take a fuzzy roller and get all the air out....this is a first bond...so no air can be allowed......if you have a resin roller....use it.
after that is done.....mix another 300 ml of resin and add another 1.5 oz csm. (wet on wet if you can) over that ...add a 1708 layer
The 1708 is a thicker weave of cloth...and will take more resin......remember....if you can do this all wet on wet, all the better.

now......mix some more resin.....but add 3% wax to it.along with the usual 2% mekp
now, add another 1.5 csm.....then you can add your thin cloth if you wish.....
this will give you a smooth surface as a finish.....use the resin roller with each layer.

a bondo spreader or squeege will make the application of the glass go fast after the initial roll out.

let that cure fully....it will only take an hour for it to cure.

now.......we have to do the inside as well..

prep is the key.....so we have to grind all the area around the crack....get down to the raw glass....

I saw a few layers of roving in there around the crack.....if the guy layed those layers.....they have to come out as well...if that was factory.....then just leave them. but get any resin off the surface.

After the grinding is done....the area needs to be cleaned by vaccuming, then acetone...

as before.....wet out well with un waxed resin. make sure the resin is really pressed into the glass and thoughly rubbed on to the surface.....(this will prevent micro bubbles that come from an improper wet out).

then add a layer of csm ....then another......then the 1708....then another csm.....a 1708.... a csm....then if you wish, the thin woven.
but the very last layer should be a waxed resin.

in short.......the layup schedule is
csm
csm
1708
csm
1708
csm
6 oz roving.

you can do this all at one time....rolling out the resin with your resin roller till there is no air, then adding the next layer.

using unwaxed resin.....you can stop if you need to ....and even let cure.....but this is such a small area...it is better to do it all at one time.

as ondarvr mentioned.....the boat you have is prone to falling apart....so if you wish....you can add a full layer of csm....then 1708 over the entire inner hull (after a good grinding and cleaning with acetone)

ok.....i gotta run.......we can deal with the benches and the dog platform in a bit.

cheers
oops

 

[Jon Sob]

Re: 12"gamefisher fiberglass repair help (pics)

Hey newbie ...... Your in good hands with these guys. Follow the advise and you will be out on the water with a safe vessel before you know it. You may already know this but it hasn't been mentioned .... please make sure that you have all the personal safety gear when doing these repairs. If your not sure what you need then ask or do a search.