125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

[tennisabcd]

Hello, need a litte help. I purchased a kit to redo the pilot check valves on the lower pump of the p/tilt/trim. I believe the check valves are the screws with the allen fittings on the ends. I removed the bolts but could not get to the needles or metal seats that were inside these bolts. How do you remove,also the 4 orings I figured went on the bolts but where does the 5th one go to. I put it all together and it still bleeds down. I ran the pump several times with the fill hole open to leach out any air? It goes up and down fine but bleeds down. I will take apart again. Plse adv. I have checked connections and they all are tight. Is one check valve up and the other down??? Any ideas.

 

[clanton]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

After you remove the check valve assy, you have to remove the steel cap from the end of the check valve assy. remove the o-ring from end of valve, use a blunt tool on o-ring groove to push cap from valve assy and the needle and spring will fall out. It helps too soak the valve in very hot water. The very small seal that goes on the end of the needle is what stops the leak down.

 

[tennisabcd]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

thanks Clanton, what about the 5th oring I received in my packet? Are those needles the key to it leaking down? Can I remove the check valves without dismantling all the lines again?

 

[clanton]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

If it is the allen screw headed check valve, the valve should come out by loosen the pump mounting bolts, so the valve in front will clear the boat transom. The seal on the end of the needle is the key, The shuttle valve also needs to move freely. The shuttle valve is the plastic valve between the two check valves, this valve moves back and forth to open and close the check valves. If it sticks it will hold the check valve open. Pn from merc for seal is 820719, which is and old Force carbuator float needle seat.

 

[tennisabcd]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

Thank a bunch! I still have 2 days of spring break left and I think I can DO IT!! It will be nice to be on the water again.

 

[my75chrysler]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

Clanton,

I have the same "bleed down" problem with my Force Chrysler tilt & trim system.
I can tell from all the reading, it is the valve body assembly that needs repair.

I need the parts numbers for all the "O" rings and where to order them from.
I called a few places for parts but I got the advices of "Can't service that part" and buy another one is the only option.

The pump works well. I changed the oil once it it was holding up just fine. But after a few times in the water, the oil got contaminated and there goes the bleed down problem.

My boat is 1975, 135 hp, 2 cylinders, serial 1359 HE.

Please help.

Thanks.

JB

 

[clanton]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

The pn are on the forum somewhere, but give me a day or 2 and I will locate the number.

 

[clanton]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

The pn for the neddle seat is 820719 from Merc. I got the valve body o-ring from a GMC automotive air condition o-ring kit. The o-rings are the thin ones.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

If 820719 doesn't fit your pump then try F17620. I think your pump uses steel balls on brass seats instead of needle valves. If so then you need to replace entire check valve. Given the year of your engine the problem is probably rusted springs anyway.

If your system is trim and tilt then you should be able to use that as a replacement check valve. Ideally you would use two of these and replace both check valves. However, you can probably get by if you just replace the one that faces away from boat. That one prevents bleed down and the other one prevents bleed up.

If your system is tilt only then your valve body may not be fixable. Tilt only systems do not have the large, squat center ram with five sided cover. They only have one shock absorber and one tilt ram. The tilt ram looks like the shock.

 

[clanton]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

The needle is inside the check valve that comes out of the main pump body. Looks like a carb float needle, with a rubber seal on the end. Pn 820719 from Merc is the seal. This part number came from old Force carb parts diagram, pn not listed in the T/T pump parts diagram. You can also find this seal in Sears small engine parts, different pn.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 force 87 yr model- bleeding down and pilot check valves.

I don't think 1975 used the same check valve. It was a more durable design but not repairable. They tend to last forever until rust or debris either ruins the small parts inside or gets jammed into it. Jamming is rare because the debris usually gets blown out next when you run system in opposite direction.

I think to fix his 1975 pump he will need to replace the entire check valve assy.

On another note. If you engine is over 90HP then be careful prying off the steel caps. If you distort the aluminum then the cap might not be able to stay in place under pressure. After a few months they can pop out and cause anything from complete failure to engine popping up out of water whenever you reverse.