19' Searay rolls under power

Scramblerman1a

Recruit
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
3
I have a 1987 Searay Sorrento 19' with a 205 hp mercruiser and alpha 1 o/d. The boat has a list to the left under most power conditions above idle. Shifting weight corrects it. The REAL problem is that when the boat is throttled up to higher speeds, it will suddenly start a hard roll, as if it would continue to go completly over on its' side. Of course, I have quickly backed off on the throtle so that it does not continue to roll. It has almost always rolled to port, but the last time out, it rolled to starboard. No trim tabs. It has a hydrofoil on the o/d. Any suggestions? This is not a safe condition.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

I'd try it without the hydrofoil. It may be the wrong device for that boat.
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

It almost sounds like it is trying to chine walk (a dramatic oscillation from side to side that can cause loss of control) and you are catching it in time. Take a look at the hull bottom. Look for any warping or large irregularities in the hull bottom. Extended periods of time on a trailer, or degradation of the structure can cause the hull to deform, causing unusual handling. If the hull is okay, you could get rid of that hydrofoil and get trim tabs, those correct balance and trim issues much better than a foil does. Good luck....
 

Knightgang

Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

I do not want to scare you, but how is the seal around the outdrive. I have heard many horror stories of I/O boats that have an outdrive seal go bad and they begin to take on water and list to one side. One of these stories resulted in the boat sinking about 400 yards from the ramp. Not a good day.<br /><br />If your seal if fine and not taking on water, then it is probably the hydrofoil.<br /><br />Knightgang
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Scrambler,<br /><br />Have you tried adjusting the power trim to create a slightly higher bow attitude.<br /><br />What might be happening is the hydofoil is lowering the bow creating turbulated water from the bow and exacerbating the condition all the way to the back, forcing the chines to dig in deeper before they hit "solid" water. This is sometimes called bowsteering and it can put a load in your shorts. <br /><br />People love them but I can't stand the hydrofoils that are mounted on the outdrive. I would consider "small" trim tabs if you can afford them, buying them too large can create the same condition. Some of the foils are trimable. Begin shaving the edges of the hydrofoil to decrease the lift created. You may find that after a few cuts you can reduce or eliminate this condition.<br /><br />Just a thought.<br /><br />PPPPPPP = Prior Proper Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Performance.
 

KCook

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,624
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

First thing I would check for is looseness or play in the steering or rigging of the drive.<br /><br />Kelly Cook
 

tylerin

Commander
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
2,368
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Is it possible you have trapped water in the hull. Your listing might change from side to side depending the angle it was sitting on the trailer. Possibly moving water from one side to another
 

Peter1959628

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
91
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Mine does the same.<br />4.3lx in Mariah 20 ft with sting ray thingy on the back.<br />I am going to put Nauticus "smart auto trim tabs" on the back next year for 156 from Iboats .com (shipped price to your door)<br />There is a very good post regarding this from a guy with a Sting ray. It was his second boat and worth reading.
 

Peter1959628

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
91
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

RDM's reply in the Smart tabs thread<br /><br /> True Story. A few years back , I was looking for a smaller boat than my<br />Four Winns cuddy, mainly for taking the family out on small lakes for water<br />skiing and tubing. After looking around a bit, I purchased a Stingray 180<br />RX bowrider. It seemed to meet our space and performance needs and seemed<br />like a real value for it's cost. And it was, except for one glaring fault.<br />At anything less that W.O.T and speeds below 35-40, it would porpoise<br />horribly unless you kept the trim fully down. Because you had to drive with<br />bow always plowing the water, instead of planing as it was designed to,<br />cornering was very unpredictable, gas mileage suffered and handling in<br />general was poor. It got to be so bad, my wife refused to drive it when I<br />wanted to ski. Having owned many other boats that you could trim at any<br />speed (once on plane), I knew this was not correct and tried to work with<br />first my dealer, then Stingray the company, to get this corrected. To make<br />a long story short, lets just say they both were an absolute joke. All I<br />had to show for months of effort of trying to go through the proper<br />channels, was countless unanswered phone calls and e-mails, wasted trips to<br />the dealer, money wasted on another prop, a lot of frustration and the<br />first hand knowledge (after trying other 18 & 19 foot Stingrays out) is<br />that they all porpoise just as badly! Many other disgruntled owners had<br />also contacted me with this same issue, after I started asking for help on<br />various boating forums. But just as I was convinced this is a flaw in the<br />design and was putting the boat up for sale, I learned of the smart tabs<br />from Nauticus. I contacted the company, who was very helpful and promised<br />they would completely fix my porpoising problem. After all I had gone<br />through with the shallow answers and promises from my dealer and Stingray,<br />I was extremely skeptical, but I went ahead and ordered a set, figuring it<br />was a lot cheaper than buying another boat. Got them a few days later and<br />installed them in about an hour.<br />Let's just say the results were far beyond my highest hopes. There is<br />absolutely no more porpoising. None whatsoever, no matter what speed or<br />trim the motor is at. Additional benefits are that the thing planes almost<br />instantly, it virtually doesn't even lift the bow at all! You feel like<br />you're in a car, not a boat when you take off! Because of this the hole<br />shot improvement is amazing. Heavy slalom skiers I could not pull out of<br />the water previously, now are no problem. Gas mileage is improved and the<br />thing corners predictably and rides much better. I even called the owner of<br />the company and thanked him personally. That was 2 years ago, and I can<br />truly say I am now 100% satisfied with this same boat I was so disgusted<br />with before the smart tabs installation, and can't even imagining using it<br />without the smart tabs. I hear so much about boaters looking for<br />performance improvements with expensive engine and prop modifications, <br />or complicated hydraulic or electric trim tabs, <br />when they could just add a set of these and get better performance<br />improvements (except top speed, that was not affected) at a fraction of the<br />cost. Several of my boating friend have installed them after they heard of<br />my success, with similar positive results. So go ahead and give them a try,<br />you won't regret it. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. <br /><br />Hope this is of help<br />ps i asked a marine tech about this and he said most hulls could do this depends on how they are built
 

Peter1959628

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
91
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

RDM's reply in the Smart tabs thread<br /><br /> True Story. A few years back , I was looking for a smaller boat than my<br />Four Winns cuddy, mainly for taking the family out on small lakes for water<br />skiing and tubing. After looking around a bit, I purchased a Stingray 180<br />RX bowrider. It seemed to meet our space and performance needs and seemed<br />like a real value for it's cost. And it was, except for one glaring fault.<br />At anything less that W.O.T and speeds below 35-40, it would porpoise<br />horribly unless you kept the trim fully down. Because you had to drive with<br />bow always plowing the water, instead of planing as it was designed to,<br />cornering was very unpredictable, gas mileage suffered and handling in<br />general was poor. It got to be so bad, my wife refused to drive it when I<br />wanted to ski. Having owned many other boats that you could trim at any<br />speed (once on plane), I knew this was not correct and tried to work with<br />first my dealer, then Stingray the company, to get this corrected. To make<br />a long story short, lets just say they both were an absolute joke. All I<br />had to show for months of effort of trying to go through the proper<br />channels, was countless unanswered phone calls and e-mails, wasted trips to<br />the dealer, money wasted on another prop, a lot of frustration and the<br />first hand knowledge (after trying other 18 & 19 foot Stingrays out) is<br />that they all porpoise just as badly! Many other disgruntled owners had<br />also contacted me with this same issue, after I started asking for help on<br />various boating forums. But just as I was convinced this is a flaw in the<br />design and was putting the boat up for sale, I learned of the smart tabs<br />from Nauticus. I contacted the company, who was very helpful and promised<br />they would completely fix my porpoising problem. After all I had gone<br />through with the shallow answers and promises from my dealer and Stingray,<br />I was extremely skeptical, but I went ahead and ordered a set, figuring it<br />was a lot cheaper than buying another boat. Got them a few days later and<br />installed them in about an hour.<br />Let's just say the results were far beyond my highest hopes. There is<br />absolutely no more porpoising. None whatsoever, no matter what speed or<br />trim the motor is at. Additional benefits are that the thing planes almost<br />instantly, it virtually doesn't even lift the bow at all! You feel like<br />you're in a car, not a boat when you take off! Because of this the hole<br />shot improvement is amazing. Heavy slalom skiers I could not pull out of<br />the water previously, now are no problem. Gas mileage is improved and the<br />thing corners predictably and rides much better. I even called the owner of<br />the company and thanked him personally. That was 2 years ago, and I can<br />truly say I am now 100% satisfied with this same boat I was so disgusted<br />with before the smart tabs installation, and can't even imagining using it<br />without the smart tabs. I hear so much about boaters looking for<br />performance improvements with expensive engine and prop modifications, <br />or complicated hydraulic or electric trim tabs, <br />when they could just add a set of these and get better performance<br />improvements (except top speed, that was not affected) at a fraction of the<br />cost. Several of my boating friend have installed them after they heard of<br />my success, with similar positive results. So go ahead and give them a try,<br />you won't regret it. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. <br /><br />Hope this is of help<br />ps i asked a marine tech about this and he said most hulls could do this depends on how they are built
 

hollowoods

Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2003
Messages
14
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Check to see that the motor mounts are steadfastly bolted to sound stringers.<br />My first I/O developed a fairly violent outdrive wag at WOT due to slop in the steering cable.<br />Investigation revealed the front "fixed" motor mounts to be anything but fixed. I was able to weld up and install a mount solution. I never addressed the steering slop.<br />Sold the boat several months later to a former friend. At the time I fully explained the mount/ cable situation. He had owned it and had it out several times over the course of 2 months. I was on the bank watching when guy ignored my warnings not to run it that fast,let it wag for several hundred feet. The boat suddenly almost flipped. One of the rear motor mounts ripped a chunk out of the bell housing. Motor/outdrive was laying 15% on its side and boat was taking water pretty good. He limped back, and we managed to get it on the trailer.<br />My second OMC I/O '84 Stingray SS had front motor mount (stringer rot) problems too.
 

Scramblerman1a

Recruit
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
3
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Thank you to all who have responded. Have learned a lot from this site so far and appreciate all that took the time to reply and share their experience. Will be working on the fix and will let you know how I make out. Thanks again, Tom
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: 19' Searay rolls under power

Scramblerman;<br /><br />You have the classic symtoms of bow steering exagerated by a torque list. The boat leans left (port) because it is trying to "unwind". What I mean is that the prop is spinning clockwise and in the process the boat is trying to rotate the oposite direction. This is why most boats have the helm on the right (starboard). My guess is that the prop is not the origional prop and may have a more agressive design. Add this common problem to excessive stern lift when cruising and the boat runs bow down in addition to the list to the port. <br /><br />The hydrofoil is concentating lift from the center of the boat "V" creating less stability port to starboard, like a teeter totter. Combine this with a bow down and the rolls left and digs in turns especially.
 
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