1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

[tylermac]

These things are still under warranty, right?

I picked this up from a local guy for $200 with the understanding that all it needs is an impeller, otherwise I could bring it back to him for a full refund (our agreement is in writing). I got it home and ran a compression test. I should've done it there, but he was so sure it ran well otherwise. Bottom cylinder is completely dead, 0 psi. The cylinder is moving, and with my finger over the spark plug hole I can feel a small amount of air movement that almost instantly dissipates. Top cylinder is 75 psi dry.

My question is, do I keep it or take the refund? It doesn't look like a head gasket would be big deal to fix, but I don't think I want it if the cylinder or bore is shot, unless that's an easier fix than I think it is. Is there any way to isolate the leak without cracking the power head open? Or is it a reasonable bet that thing overheated from the bad impeller and blew the head gasket?

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

if its been badly overheated you would see some discoloration of the head. ive never seen one with zero compression, but a headgasket could be the issue. id ask the seller if he would still take it back if you pulled the head to investigate, and found that the bottom cyl was shot. you also can remove the cover on the side of the engine, but that wont tell the whole story.

 

[tylermac]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

I don't see any discoloration, so maybe that it's more likely to be a bad piston.

I called the previous owner and he says he'd prefer to get it back the way he sold it. So no cracking it open.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

yep, id take it back, $200 is about $175 to much for a motor with an unknown internal issue.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

I'd definitely take it back.
JMO,
JBJ

 

[tylermac]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Well it sounds unanimous. Thanks for the responses--I'm an overeager newbie and I get attached to mechanical things far too easily. It's only been with me for 2 days, and I might shed a tear to see it go.

 

[dkonrai]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Well it sounds unanimous. Thanks for the responses--I'm an overeager newbie and I get attached to mechanical things far too easily. It's only been with me for 2 days, and I might shed a tear to see it go.

its ok, there will be others. i have number 21, and 22 in the garage right now! i try to not get attached to my motors. i always bring the compression tester when looking at used motors.

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Too bad you don't live close to me, I would sell you another good running Fleetwin with 75 on both holes. If I was you, I would take it back to the P.O. and just ask hime to open the head and bypass covers for you. If he's not willing to do that, then get your money back. If he is and you find just a bad head gasket, then you have the option of replacing the head gasket and keeping a fine motor. A good man of business, will be willing to work with you. I would. If the bad compression is due to a bad piston, trust me, you will find what you need to know, just by removing the bypass cover. A piston that bad will definately show.

 

[tylermac]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Hmmm, your profile says you live in Yamhill? Is that the Yamhill in Oregon? I live in Bellingham, WA and I'll actually be passing through that area in about 3 weeks.

I took a light and tried to see as much of the cylinder as I could through the hole. By playing with the angles and moving the piston through it's cycle, I could see all of the upper bore and about 95% of the top of the cylinder. The bore was mirror-smooth and the cylinder appeared intact.

I'm not familiar with the bypass cover... is what's called the transfer passage cover in the service manual?

I feel like I should be able to find where the air is escaping when I move the piston. I don't feel anything around the head gasket, or hear any hissing. I also don't see any discoloration, so I'm doubting it's the gasket.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

I'm not familiar with the bypass cover... is what's called the transfer passage cover in the service manual?

I feel like I should be able to find where the air is escaping when I move the piston. I don't feel anything around the head gasket, or hear any hissing. I also don't see any discoloration, so I'm doubting it's the gasket.

This is where the bypass covers live:


As you can see in the pic, you can get a better idea about the condition of the pistons, rings, and cylinders if you can pull them off.

Don't discount a head gasket yet...
The gasket can allow compression to leak into the water passage around the cylinders with out an external leak. That was the case on the Fleetwin I cleaned up over the summer. The bottom cylinder was leaking compression into the water jacket. The carbon black in the head passage was telling;

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Yes, I am in Yamhill. I love Bellingham. It's a beautiful city. Watkins Falls Park is really nice. My ex had an aunt that lived up there, and we got to visit. Plus we went up into Vancouver B.C. while we were there.

Yea, like RojersJetboat454 is showing you, they are the little covers on the intake side of the block. A piston that is bad off enough to give you zero compression, will show you scoring and severe damage through the ports there. If the pistons and rings look good there, then you likely have a bad head gasket. Fortunately, that can be fixed for less than a 20 dollar bill.

 

[kbait]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Most certainly a blown head gasket between the bottom cylinder and water jacket. Pull the head and fix it. If by the infinitesimal chance it's not the gasket, bring it back to seller w/a new gasket in hand.. can't see any reason he wouldn't honor your agreement.

 

[tylermac]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

I decided to pull the bypass covers and take a peek, since I'm starting to feel it's just the head gasket, and pulling them doesn't have any material effect on the motor. The rings and piston look identical between the top and bottom. There are minor scratches/grooves that show on both pistons. I don't know if that's normal, but I figure if the top holds compression like that, the bottom should as well. And the rings between both looked the same.

Zephyr, where can you find gaskets for $20? The local Evinrude dealer quoted me $40.

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

$40 for a head gasket?? Yikes. I would shop around a bit. Try Sea-Way Marine, in Seattle or try Ebay. There's gotta be something cheaper. Try here at iboats too. I found a complete gasket set for the entire motor at vintageoutboard.com, for $39

 

[bbstacker1]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

If they quoted you $40 just for a head gasket sounds like they don't want your business. Like Zeph said shop around, you might also try Marineengine.com, I get a lot of my parts from them (you said at the beginning that the motor needs an impeller so you are going to need an impeller and base gasket also as a minimum). I do think you should think about what you posted in your second post before you do anymore digging "I called the previous owner and he says he'd prefer to get it back the way he sold it", you may end up with a motor you don't want!!

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

I'm just curious if you got the pressure tank with the motor?

 

[tylermac]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?



I got home last night and decided to go ahead and pull the head. This is what I found, a couple of big gaping holes in the gasket right next to the middle bolt hole on the bottom cylinder. Piston and bore look good. I called the dealer back with my specific model number and it'll be $12 for the gasket, $16 for the impeller. Don't know why he got them so wrong the first time. I'm heading over now to pick them up.

And yes, the pressure tank came with the motor. Fittings look good and both ends and it seems to hold pressure just fine. Hopefully I'll be out by tomorrow testing it out on the lake!

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Good deal. You'll be back up and running probably before you read this.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

that worked out well !! be sure to check the head for "flatness", before you button it back up.

 

[64osby]

Re: 1958 Fleetwin, dead cylinder--Keep it or send it back?

Take a look at milling the head and maybe the block.

Did that when I replaced the head gasket on a 57 Johnson and ended up with over 100 psi on both cylinders.

It runs like new. Good luck with yours.

Edit, nwc, Great minds thick a like.