1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

[N6REJ]

Hello, I'm new to the group and new to maintaining my own boat motors. I'm disabled so I can't afford to hirer someone to fix it for me so my wife and I are doing it. We have a 1960's era glastron I think about a 14' or so, ( seats 4 ) with a seaking 40hp outboard on her. She has not been well cared for the last several years as she was left out in a field in the sun uncovered with her motor cover off. The gentleman we bought her from said he had trouble getting back to shore one day and since he had replaced a coil previously when she had a miss he assumed she needed only her points cleaned and all would be well.
She sat in our garage over the winter and we pulled her out a few weeks ago to begin the task of HOPEFULLY using her this spring.
Boy were we in for a shock. We knew she needed one new fuel line when we bought her but upon closer examination we discovered that not only did ALL the fuel lines need replacing but that virtually every electrical wire inside the motor has been black tape spliced at least once in its life. I've replaced all the bad fuel lines, clean the varnish out of the glass bowl, replaced the bad electrical lines, and was trying to get her to start with fresh fuel when we discovered she was putting fuel out the carb.
There are two wing controls on the top of the carb one of which goes below to I believe another round shaft control but is currently disconnected. I don't know where to put water into the shaft so I haven't tried to start it very much.
We didn't have a pulley to pull the flywheel back off as he had already taken it off once and gave up when he couldn't get it running, but while we were trying to start it the flywheel was curtious enough to pop loose so now we are able to see the sad shape of the coils and magneto? You can see pictures of everything here ... My photo gallery. I'm fairly certain one of the coils needs replaced and both points. I also believe the sparkplug wires need replacing as the boots on both are broken badly and are being held with black tape - of course -
I would really like to get our boat working as I have a thing for vintage stuff and she's as old as I am. Motor anyway. I could use any and all help I can get. I have no manuals or anything for her. Her engine model number is gg18744b and serial is 26x864583
One of my biggest concerns is a crack she has on the starboard side of her transom. A look at the interior shows the fiberglass half way down the transom running the width of the transom to be flaking like a seam. I know she has been used to pull skiers in the past so I believe the damage has come from that. As far as the rest of the boat is concerned she has mild what I call "hairs" in various spots suggesting that she could use a good deoxidizer followed by new gelcoat but I don't think we'll have the money for that this year other then deoxidizing her and rewaxing her.
The trailer is in worse shape ( needs new carpeting, rollers, line, etc ) but I think we can tackle that once we get her in the water.
One of the things I noticed today is that the throttle doesn't quite advance the timing thingy quite right. I can manually move it just fine, but there seems to be some kind of slippage in the control. The control's are very tight from the navigation station, but fine from the motor itself. Cables are NOT broken but I suspect need some form of lubrication.
She currently will not start, and I also don't know what the holes in the side of the lower unit are for. I'm not sure if I have the two hatches that cover them or not. I know I have the screws but possibly not the hatches.
Sorry for such a long post.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Get a manual soon...Google Ken Cook marine manuals and you'll find the site. Also check the Awakening a Sleeping Outboard thread in the FAQ forum. Check the floor of the boat, if it's soft in several spots you may be better off with another boat...replacing the floor/transom is not a job for the squeamish or those on limited budgets. Several do a great job with it though...check the threads in Boat Restoration and Rebuilding. Long story short, do some homework by reading the forums here and then honestly evaluate what you have and then proceed from there.

 

[JB]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Your engine was built by Gale, a division of OMC, and is nearly identical to JohnnyRude 40s of the period. That should make parts and Manuals easier to locate. Someone will name the year here soon.

Spark plugs are Champion J4C, gapped at .030", and the points in the mags should be set at .020".

Take the boat restoration questions for your project to the Boat Restoration Forum.

Good luck.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

I'll check the deck out to see if its soft. I don't think it is. The fiberglass decking that I see in the fuel locker looks great except for one suspicous 3/8" hole. If this was on a car I would say it was a acid vent for the battery.
One thing I failed to mention is that the compression on the top cylinder was 90-95psi dry and the bottom was 97psi dry.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Compression is close to the minimum 100 psi And with a little work will probably get better.
Take a hold of the motor and push it front to back as it might under use.
Watch for transom movement.
Motor appears to be a 62 Deluxe Electric start 40.Very similar to E/J motors.
Routine parts are available at a number of places including Iboats,well established dealers and NAPA auto parts.
Broke boats.com has lots of helpful tips.and info.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Compression is close to the minimum 100 psi And with a little work will probably get better.
Take a hold of the motor and push it front to back as it might under use.
Watch for transom movement.
Motor appears to be a 62 Deluxe Electric start 40.Very similar to E/J motors.
Routine parts are available at a number of places including Iboats,well established dealers and NAPA auto parts.
Broke boats.com has lots of helpful tips.and info.

I'll go give that a try today. And let you know. I have a feeling it won't move but I'll sure try to get it to. I'm 6'1 400lbs so if its going to go I should be able to make it do so.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

well, happy to report no transom movement near the crack area. I'm going to triple check today to see if ANY movement was detected in the middle area of the transom but I don't think so. Just the metal trim and some fiberglass movement.

As for the motor I discovered it has a sheared woodruff key for the flywheel so I have to find one of those and that the points and coils were shot. I've replaced and regapped them all as best as I know how following a clymers manual I bought for that purpose. I can't figure out how to fill the lower unit with fluid. It appears you need some form of pressure device and the lower unit fluid I bought was in a quart bottle. Did I buy the wrong stuff?
Also I see some light cracks along the bottom of the lower unit near the skeg. It looks like this area has been patched before. I'm questioning its integrity.
Still need all the help and advice I can get.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

If you don't have the flywheel and shaft tapers clean and dry and use a torque wrench to tighten the nut to 100-105 ft/lbs it will shear the key again. And destroy the flywheel and shaft if it hasn't already.

They sell gear oil pumps at WalMart. Fill from the bottom till it comes out the top as the manual says. DON'T remove the phillips screw. That is not the drain plug!

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Thanks for your reply. I found a evinrude dealer about 25 miles away and bought the proper pump and everything from him. Boy am I glad I asked questions here or I would've made a mess. I've located the two proper screws ( clearly marked ) and am now going to do what didn't make any sense to me till it was explained and fill from the bottom tomorrow. They didn't seem to have the proper woodruff key unfortunately, so I'm waiting till I can find the right one before I do anything more with the flywheel. I don't want to damage anything.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

If you don't have the flywheel and shaft tapers clean and dry and use a torque wrench to tighten the nut to 100-105 ft/lbs it will shear the key again. And destroy the flywheel and shaft if it hasn't already.

They sell gear oil pumps at WalMart. Fill from the bottom till it comes out the top as the manual says. DON'T remove the phillips screw. That is not the drain plug!

That phillips screw you speak of, is it really close to the drain plug? Reason I ask is we went to put fluid in today and it started pouring out from a hole very close to the drain plug. I haven't removed a phillips from down there, but that doesn't mean the previous owner didn't.
Do you have any images of what it should look like?
Thanks
Troy

 

[F_R]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Both the fill level and drain screws are the same size, about 5/8" diameter, straight slot screws. One is on the starboard (right) side, about midway between the anti-cavitation plate and the bulge where the gearcase bolts onto the midsection.

The drain is on the bottom of the gearcase directly forward of the skeg (fin). You have to hunker down and look underneath to see it.

The phillips goes in the starbord side, near the top of the skeg, It is a 1/4" hole. Yes, I would say that's pretty close to the drain plug.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Both the fill level and drain screws are the same size, about 5/8" diameter, straight slot screws. One is on the starboard (right) side, about midway between the anti-cavitation plate and the bulge where the gearcase bolts onto the midsection.

The drain is on the bottom of the gearcase directly forward of the skeg (fin). You have to hunker down and look underneath to see it.

The phillips goes in the starbord side, near the top of the skeg, It is a 1/4" hole. Yes, I would say that's pretty close to the drain plug.

My wife says thats exactly where the oil was coming from. I don't know if we have the proper screw for that or not. Anything special we need to know about this screw?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

It's not just an ordinary screw. It is a locator pin for the shifting yoke in the gearbox. Without it, you can't shift. Replacing it almost always requires splitting the gearcase. On rare occasions, you can replace it without doing so, but I've never managed it.

You'll definitely need a manual, and some experience. Failing that, your best bet is to bite the bullet, pull the lower unit and take it to an Evinrude/Johnson shop and have them do the job. You'll be ahead of the game, I think, and they can also inspect the clutch dogs for wear...a common problem.

The dealer should have the part in stock, since it fit a long range of Big Twins through the 1970s.

If it were me, I'd have it done, just on general principles. If you're not experienced, it's going to be a long job, full of bad language, I guarantee.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

It's not just an ordinary screw. It is a locator pin for the shifting yoke in the gearbox. Without it, you can't shift. Replacing it almost always requires splitting the gearcase. On rare occasions, you can replace it without doing so, but I've never managed it.

You'll definitely need a manual, and some experience. Failing that, your best bet is to bite the bullet, pull the lower unit and take it to an Evinrude/Johnson shop and have them do the job. You'll be ahead of the game, I think, and they can also inspect the clutch dogs for wear...a common problem.

The dealer should have the part in stock, since it fit a long range of Big Twins through the 1970s.

If it were me, I'd have it done, just on general principles. If you're not experienced, it's going to be a long job, full of bad language, I guarantee.

Their is a guy in the next town north that appears to be the only one in the state that will work on these older motors. He is quoting me $200-400 and that would include "pressure testing the lower unit and going through the rest of the engine". I imagine there would probably be a few parts added to it, but I doubt if it would be much. I think he even said he would include a new impeller for that price and new seals. But I can't remember for sure. Does this sound reasonable? I'm in agreement with you that its beginning to get to the point where its beyond my current knowledge. Changing the points and such wasn't hard at all, but I know absolutely nothing about lower units and how they function. The points are simple as they are very similar to the bus I have and the numerous vehicles I've worked on as a young man.
It is almost impossible to shift this thing from the remote and stiff even at the engine control but it does shift.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Since your only investment so far is some time and effort, that sounds like quite a good price...especially if he lets you hang around and pick his brain/observe while the work is being done.

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

Since your only investment so far is some time and effort, that sounds like quite a good price...especially if he lets you hang around and pick his brain/observe while the work is being done.

no, I've already replaced both coils, the condensers, the points, the plugs but from what Harley ( the mechanic ) said, that saved me money as he doesn't have to do them, only check to see that I did it properly. I paid about $75 for all those parts. So I'll have about $600-800 total invested in the boat. By the time its all said and done. Perhaps as much as $1000 but I don't think so. I've got about $250 into it at this stage.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

I stand corrected. Still a good price though. What price knowledge?

 

[N6REJ]

Re: 1962 Montgomery Wards Seaking 40hp Help needed

I've decided to go ahead and let Harley go through it. That way I also have the reassurance that everything is ok. Maybe not perfect as its an old motor and I know the compression is lower then it should be, but if he says its ok, then I can relax as he has a good reputation around here, And he's going to look at the transom for me and let me know what if anything I need to do about it.
In short I'll get a general health eval of my vessel and that has value.
Thanks for everyones help.