1963 Gale

[tosh dickenson]

I am new to boating and just purchases an older Seaswirl with what appears to be a 1963 Seaking 25 made by Gale for Montgomery Wards. I have good spark through the plugs and fuel to the carb but not even a hint of firing. I have squirted fuel into the carb as well as directly into the pistons before I put the plugs in. The fuel is fresh. The points and coil are new and the plugs are almost new and clean. The motor cranks very well and a quick compression check showed 91 lbs each cylinder. I am fairly mechanical but know nothing about outboards. Any suggestions? Also what about finding a repair manual for this? The Johnson/Evinrude manual was fairly different. My wife is gonna kill me if I dont make this run!<br />THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alcan]

Re: 1963 Gale

Hi Toshi<br /> Is the Mod# GG-18803A? We need to know, it will help get everybody on the same page. Did you install the new ignit parts? Which manual did you look at? Any manual covering OMC outboards of this era and size should work. If the differences are confusing, give some more details. Just a thought, maybe you flooded it with the extra fuel?

 

[tosh dickenson]

Re: 1963 Gale

Yes, it is GG18803A. I'm pretty sure I didn't flood it because the plugs werent saturated and I cleaned them and tried it again. I even tried a small shot of starting fluid (I know it's not recommended) but not even a hint of ignition. The Johnson/Evinrude 1956-1972 manual did not show the magneto ignition in depth and the wiring diagrams weren't even close. I am wondering if it is some sort of timing issue that is causing the fuel charge to exhaust before ignition time. It would seem that if fuel and spark are present it would practically have to be a timing problem.<br />Thanks!

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1963 Gale

Have you verified whether you have spark?

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1963 Gale

I take it you have a remote electric starter. Does it have a distributor? These Gales are great motors...generic OMC/Evinrudes/Johnson. If you have spark, and fuel but no kick chances are its a timing problem. You may need to pull the flywheel and time it. You're going to need a manual...about $30 so start sweet talking the wife. You can't do much without a manual to tell you how to time it, unless one of the old hands on this board can walk you through it. Just be patient, it'll work itself out.

 

[alcan]

Re: 1963 Gale

Hi Toshi<br /> Do not use starting ether (fluid). I believe you maybe correct in your timeing theory. Sounds as if the plug wires are crossed. If you can give more details on wiring diffs. Is your model an electric start, etc. The manual you have should work fine. Let see if we can strighten this mess out.

 

[tosh dickenson]

Re: 1963 Gale

I have confirmed I have good spark...I used a screwdriver shorted to the block and it will jump a 1/2" gap and then I grounded each spark plug and got good spark as well. I took off the flywheel tonite and rotated the crank until the distributor cam aligned with the "time" dot, then checked to see that the piston was at TDC. It appeared to be good so I blew air in the cylinder and it compressed, when I below at the opposite cylinder it blew air out the exhaust. I hope this proves that it is not a combustion chamber leak. The real chore seems to be locating a manual for this motor. I appreciate all your suggestions and if anyone knows of a manual source please let me know!

 

[Yepblaze]

Re: 1963 Gale

Make sure you don't have the plug wires on the wrong plugs. Try a squirt of fuel mix in each plug hole, replace plugs and spin it over. Should fire off momentarily. If not you still have an ignition issue.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 1963 Gale

Toshiedee,<br /> A generic manual is easy just use a E/J from a similar year. If you want a Gale manual probably <br />ebay is your best bet.<br /> If it doesnt fire with fuel directly in cylinder<br /> It must be timimg. Double check for correct wire to each cylinder.If the flywheel key is partially sheared or has a damaged keyway it could throw the<br />timing off.<br /> Also if the points are set to the wrong gap it will throw off the timing.

 

[tosh dickenson]

Re: 1963 Gale

Well tonite while I was messing around I moved the throttle linkage that is attached to the magneto and I got a sputter out of the motor! I couldn't recreate it, but it gives me hope! It certainly seems like it must be a timing issue or a problem with the magneto/advance or something. Does anybody have a tried and true method for setting the base timing? I know everyone says the Johnson/Evinrude manual for this year is close enough but I'm here to tell you that isn't the case! Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[alcan]

Re: 1963 Gale

Hi Toshiedee<br /> You state that the manual dosn't show the magnito in detail. Can you describe your ignition system in detail? All you tell us is it's not the same or it won't work. What's different? Can you post a picture? There are a lot of sharp folks here, that have worked on every outboard ever made, and are working on the motors of tomorrow. Have you tried the public library for info on your motor? How did you determine the year of it? Have you checked the antique outboard motor club's web site?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 Gale

I'm not exactly familiar with the Gale but I've got a RX-10 (Johnson 28hp 1962) which I'm guessing is the Gale's twin brother. Anyway, here's a couple tests you might want to try:<br /><br />1) The two small black wires coming from the armature plate kill ignition on the top or bottom cyl. when grounded. One should lead to a pressure cutout switch (round thing with a hose connected to the manifold). If you have one and it's malfunctioning it could be killing the spark on one cylinder when your sparkplugs are in. You might want to test for spark with the sparkplugs in place.<br /><br />2) If you've got a DMM (Digital Multi Meter), disconnect each black wire from the armature plate and test the resistance of each armature plate wire to ground. As you *slowly* rotate the flywheel, the resistance should drop *very slightly* to 0 as the mark on the flyweel aligns between the marks on the armature plate. There are two marks on the flywheel for top & bottom (180 deg. appart). This will tell you if the points are set correctly (.020 gap when wide open). You could also check this with a timming light.<br /><br />3) To check the timming between the carb and the spark advance (rotation of armature plate - your armature plate *does* rotate with the throttle doesn't it?!? These do get stuck..) open the throttle until the throttle plate *just* begins to move. At this point the mark on the brass cam attached to the armature plate should align with the pointer (thing sticking up) on the intake manifold. This can be adjusted from the doey where the carb's plate is attached to the linkage. <br /><br />4) Perhaps 0?? Make sure the correct plug lead is on the correct spark plug! Try getting it to fire with the wires swapped. Alternatively, you could trace one of the sparkplug wires to where it enters through the armature plate. Then find the magnetic part of the flywheel (one of the indents on the flywheel just below the shiny cog part should attract a screwdriver). Align these two points and check the depth of each piston by sticking a screwdriver through the spark plug hole. The piston closest to the spark plug hole should be attached to the sparkplug wire you traced. <br /><br />I hope this helps!

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1963 Gale

Hey Toshidee,<br />Go here www.aomci.org and post a wanted ad for a manual on the classified section. That's a sure way to find a manual.

 

[tosh dickenson]

Re: 1963 Gale

Went through the timing procedure as close as I could follow in the J/E manual. I am getting sputtering out of it now. How easily should the spark advance plate attached to the throttle linkage move? With the flywheel and pull start plate off it moves free, once the flywheel,etc. is back on it is very hard to move. It moves easier if your rotate the flywheel/motor with it. I turned so hard on the throttle linkage that it popped the clip off. Any ideas?

 

[alcan]

Re: 1963 Gale

Hi Toshi<br /> The stater plate sould at no time contact the fly wheel. It sounds as if the coils were installed incorectly. If you notice there is a machined boss under the coil laminations (where they mount). Use the end of a steel rule or something similar, to use as a stright edge. Make the coil laminations even with this boss. The stator plate and the flywheel must be completely separate.

 

[tosh dickenson]

Re: 1963 Gale

Thank you so much! You guys saved my bacon! It appears that the coils were too far outward and dragging on the flywheel, not allowing the actuator to move freely. After measuring and adjusting them the motor started (albeit grudgingly!). I need to repair a fuel line so as soon as I do that I will give it a thorogh run test but I believe we conquered this problem!