1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

[jallenlots]

Hello again,

Last week I took out my recently purchased motor for the first time after 8 months of fairly intensive rehab. To sum it up: peaks and valleys. I had a question about the valleys...

Before leaving the garage we knew a few important things. Good spark in all four cylinders, good compression, fuel system cleaned at every point up to but not including the carbs, functional electric shift with new impeller and gearcase oil, cylinders hit with a LIGHT touch of Deep Creep a month or two ago. Though all of the pieces seemed to be in place, we had trouble getting the motor started. I was neither surprised nor disappointed in this, as it was the first time we had ever cranked her over, with no knowledge of how long she had sat.

The fuel system seemed to prime really well. The new fuel line and bulb didn't take very long to firm up and hold pressure. After turning over a few times and getting no ignition, we decided to drop about a teaspoon of pre-mixed gas with sta-bil into the carbs. The results were still a bit shaky, though we did get it to fire a couple of times. Next we sprayed a touch of Sea-Foam into the carbs, with the same results as the gasoline. Finally, we got it to start up for about 30 seconds before quitting again. After a bit more messing with the throttle position, we found a position slightly forward of the designated start position that seemed to work much better. Before long we were moving across the lake and the motor actually sounded great, with very little if any sputtering or spitting. The problem was, though we were at WOT, we were still moving pretty slow, and not making it on plane. We adjusted the carb needles but really the motor only seemed to get worse if any of them were adjusted in or out. As stated before, the motor "sounded" great.

After about 10-15 minutes of doing circles at WOT, but only traveling at half speed, we felt a jolt. Then another. Then she threw us back into our seats, popped up on plane, and took off like a bat out of hell. 20 seconds into that smooth and glorious burst of power, during which the engine purrrrrrred beautifully and hurled us across the lake, the motor quit and all of the 2 gallons of gas we had started with was gone.

What happened!? I'm assuming we had a dead cylinder or two, but for the life of me I don't know why. If you've got any ideas...I'd very much appreciate hearing them!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

Yes, I would say she was not running on all cylinders, until the end. I really think you should clean and rebuild the carb. Normally a motor of that vintage will have fixed high speed carb jets and adjustable idle jets. Once you are past idle speed (say 900RPM) the idle jet adjustments will not longer matter.

BTW that motor will burn 8.5 gal/hour of fuel, so you need at least 12 gal to go anywhere. Fuel should be premixed at 50::1.

 

[jallenlots]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

I am not positive on the high speed jets though I assume you're right. I could've sworn that I had two high speed adjustment screws down low but as I look at the exploded carb. group now, I can't find it. The motor is electric everything and surprisingly quiet, leading me to believe that in it's day, it was top-o'-the-line in that hp range. Fuel was mixed, with TCW-3 2-Cycle, at 50:1. I appreciate the mileage! I'm sure they vary but that's a great ballpark figure that I haven't seen anywhere else!

Are you proposing that a problem with or the dirtiness of the carb is causing a dead cylinder? I can't see how it would've been a piston/ring/bore problem because it ran so well once the cylinder came to life. I assumed the lowered gas pressure helped to clear out a possibly flooded cylinder, hence our running out of gas and being "brought to life" happened so close to each other.

We'll be taking it out next week Tues, Wed, and/or Thurs. to further investigate. I appreciate the sound ideas!

 

[boobie]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

Have you checked your spark yet on all 4 cyl's ? Should jump a 3/8 " open air gap on a spark tester.

 

[jallenlots]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

I checked before we went out and I had spark in all 4 cylinders. I couldn't tell ya if it was a good enough to jump a 3/8" gap, but it seemed to be a nice thick spark. Should I invest in a spark tester?

 

[boobie]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

You can buy them for around $8.00 at an autoparts store. You can always use it the future.

 

[jallenlots]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

Ordered one just now. It will be nice to have on the shelf so thanks for the suggestion. Is the assumption that the dead cylinder was caused by poor spark?

 

[F_R]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

It would be stupid to sit here and try to diagnose your problem. But I can give you some insight in what you are dealing with. In the first place, your motor has a two-barrel carburetor with two high speed jets. Each side feeds two cylinders. So a restriction in one side will knock out two cylinders.

Furthermore, it has what is called Battery CD ignition. It consists of an amplifier to conver the battery's 12 volts to about 300 volts and stores it in a capacitor. It also has two sets of breaker points that tells the amplifier when to fire. When it does fire, the 300 volts is sent to the spark coil and converted to thousands of volts, which is then sent to the distributor under the flywheel. The distributor directs the voltage to the correct spark plug. And if that isn't enough, there is an anti-reverse ring in there to prevent it from running backwards. If that ring isn't serviced and lubricated properly, it wears out and the metal dust from it fouls the points and distributor.

The amplifier is sensitive to improper service or maintenance and cannot stand running with poor battery connections. But it is working, which is proved by the fact that it runs at all. The distributor is ----well, garbage. But that's the way they were, and it should run. The breaker points don't burn up, but they do mechanically wear and have to be checked and adjusted. Gap is .009" (.010" when new). The anti-reverse ring is lubricated very sparingly with just a bit of EP grease. Distributor cap must be clean and no carbon tracking or cracks.

If it still has those original surface gap spark plugs, trash them and install L77J4C or QL77J4C, gapped .035"-.040".

There is no reason that motor can't run properly, but you can't just wave a magic wand over it.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

If you had only one dead cyl that points to a bad cap or plug wire.

 

[jallenlots]

Re: 1968 85hp Ev. Starflite V4 - First day on water question

Thanks for the help and insight guys. F_R, I find a large number of your posts are in the form of "information sandwiches". Great info I always appreciate in the middle, and subtle condescension on the outsides. Nonetheless, your vast experience and knowledge show and I don't mind picking out the middle for it is generally priceless. I promise I was only looking for insight/ideas; not a full diagnosis and/or quick fix as you seem to suggest. Also, If I'm ever looking for a magic wand, I'll check eBay or post a WTB request in the appropriate forum as to keep it from cluttering up the outboard forums.

I will pull the flywheel today and inspect the points/cap/a-r ring. My plugs are fine (new and gapped to manufacturer spec.), and it appears the amp was recently replaced, as it has the Johnson logo on it and most likely did not come with the motor. From what I gathered before I took the motor out that day, I had what seemed to be a thick and solid spark on all four cylinders. However, that was only with the "shade-tree" test of holding the plug up to the block. :redface: Regardless, I will check for proper gapping and condition of the points and test the plugs tomorrow when the tester arrives.

I understand the theory of operation as it pertains to the carburetor(s). I first thought I may have had float problems, but quickly realized that there is only one float, and if it was bad I wouldn't have had the other side running so well. I guess my biggest conundrum was that I couldn't understand why one side was flooded and/or not igniting until the fuel pressure decreased just before running out. Is it possible to "over prime" these motors? I have really only looked at the problem from a fuel flow perspective until now, so I appreciate the talk of possible electrical/ignition problems as I wouldn't have thought to look there so soon. <- That's why I love this forum.