1972 Mate 2 Carb low speed needle valve tip broke off in seat

[jpian0923]

The Tip of the needle valve broke off in the seat ( I over tightened it). It's a built in seat. I can't get it out. I was thinking that if I removed the expansion plug I might be able to gain access to the broken tip. Is this a correct assumption? If so, how do I get the plug out without destroying it, or the carb?

 

[F_R]

That is what you need to do. You may get lucky and be able to knock it out from inside. To remove the plug, punch or drill a small hole in it, then stick a punch or rod in the hole and lever it out. Be very careful not to go too deep when making the hole. You WILL need a new plug. To install it, lay it in the cavity, curved side up, and use a hammer and suitable tool to flatten it out. Do not go beyond flat, or it will get loose again.

 

[lindy46]

I just had the same problem with a 5.5hp I was repairing. I was unable to knock the tip out from inside the cavity. It just didn't stick out through the orifice far enough to push it out. I ended up replacing the top half of the carb with another I had laying around. As F_R says, you may get lucky, but you'll still need a new needle and the freeze plug. A new needle is about $30 and expansion plug $6, so you may be able to find a used carb for less money.

 

[jpian0923]

Thank you for the responses. I bought a carb kit that has a new expansion plug in it. I found a local dealer (I'm in San Diego) that has a new slow speed needle for the same price, no shipping charges! (An expensive lesson though). I'm going to make an attempt at removing the broken bit first. Is there a good source for used carbs for this engine?

 

[oldboat1]

think you might be missing a point -- expansion plug is a routine replacement part that is part of cleaning and rebuilding. The plugs are included in rebuild kits. You remove it to clean out the idle system. There is no law that says you have to do it, but you risk poor idling if you don't open it up and clean it.

With that other carb**, you should expect to clean it and put in a rebuild kit, replacing its expansion plug after cleaning under there. (As you intend, push that broken tip out from the inside of the current carb, after taking off the plug. But don't drill it out.)

**(edit.) that is, if you pick up a replacement carb....

 

[F_R]

As a last ditch, nothing to lose solution to the broken needle which I have used to save an otherwise hopeless case, you might drill a small hole through the opposite side of the cavity, and aligned with the broken tip. You can then use a appropriate tool to get a straight shot at knocking the tip out. Remember, that tip is jammed in there very tight--so tight that it twisted off rather than pull out. Once you are "lucky" and get the tip out, use a dab of epoxy to seal the hole that you drilled.

 

[oldboat1]

^^^like that. guessing it's been done a few times.

That idle orifice is a tiny opening in a soft metal housing, currently jammed with a little piece of soft metal. If you can see and reach the tip of the needle when you pull off the plug, might first try a bladed screwdriver to gently push it back out. Failing that, the little dimpled top of a finishing nail might work to push it out, bending the nail to get to the right access, maybe some leverage with a bladed screwdriver. Maybe a little lube or carb cleaner on the possibility that some corrosion is going to fight you -- might help. can't hurt.

If that fails, try F_R's solution -- could use a finishing nail as the prod, drilling a hole to fit the nail (maybe 1/8"?). Can see how that trick could work well, but think I wouldn't grab the drill unless it's a last resort, like F_R says.

All this talk over a tiny little bit of busted metal. Best thing is, probably won't break off another one very quickly -- also get to see how and where they seat.

 

[jpian0923]

I spent a few hours trying to "worry" that little tip out of there. I tried heat, lube, carb cleaner and compressed air, all while using an improvised dental pick to sort of pry it out. . Didn't work. I destroyed it with a drill from the front of the carb. Strangely, after putting it back together, it runs fairly well...occasional miss fire but it would work in a pinch. I did find one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Johnson-Evinrude-1-5-2-hp-Carburetor-1968-1977-/171981061217. Can you guys tell me if this will fit my engine. It looks like a perfect match but I'm not sure if the bolt holes will match up perfectly.

 

[lindy46]

Part number for your carb is 384500. Carb on Ebay is 386182. That one should work though - you may have to switch out some linkages but it should fit. That's what I had to do on the 5.5hp I repaired. The cam follower was slightly different, as was the choke linkage. But they were easy to switch out and fit perfectly.

 

[jpian0923]

I'm waiting for a response from the eBay seller to see the condition of the two needles in the carb for sale. In the meanwhile, I'm going to experiment with this damaged carb and see if I can make a needle from the damaged one, that will fit the new hole I drilled. Has anyone tried this before?

 

[jpian0923]

I ended up buying the one listed above on eBay. If I have to change linkages, at least now I have an almost full carb for spare parts. I'll report back when I get it and I'll report back about my experiment. If I can, maybe I'll post some pictures of my attempt at modifying the damaged needle and seat.

 

[jpian0923]

The ebay carb was an exact fit, linkages and everything. Installed it out of the box, without rebulding it, it still miss fires a bit. I have to do a carb kit on it. If it still misses after the carb kit what else would cause the miss fires? Condenser?

 

[lindy46]

First rebuild the carb and see how she runs. Seat the low speed needle GENTLY and back it out 1.5 turns to start. Seat the high speed needle and back out 3/4 turn.

 

[jpian0923]

Haven't rebuilt the new carb yet but I was looking at the parts list for the Motor Cover and noticed a part I don't have. Part number 14, Bracket to carb spacer. How critical is this part to the engine function? Also, how come this engine doesn't have an air filter?

 

[F_R]

The spacer doesn't affect engine performance, but it is there simply so everything bolts securely together.
Outboards do not have air filters because there is very little dust out on the lake. Some have air boxes to silence the noise of the reeds as it runs. And some real antique stuff have flame arrestors. But as for your 2hp, neither are needed and besides it was built to sell at a rock bottom price.

 

[jpian0923]

I think i found the culprit. The gas tank has alot of rust in it. I thought I had cleaned it out good enough, but didn't. I'm working on that.
Anyway, the vent on the gas cap...should there be a gasket on it? It leaks gas when it's upside down. My concern is that, if gas can get out, water can get in. This motor will be outside on my canoe tied to a dock.

Also, I thought the lack of the spacer might affect the engines ability to breathe but as I take a closer look I can see there is plenty of room between the bracket and the carb for air intake.

 

[hardwater fisherman]

No Title

The photo I found of your gas cap shows a cork gasket. Do you have this gasket? Go to shopevinrude to find a parts breakdown. Was the vent closed when you turned it upside down? If open I think gas would leak out. There is also a rubber gasket between the cork and the cap. The gaskets are for sale on EBAY.

 

[jpian0923]

It leaks around the vent screw when closed. I'm wondering if that's by design to allow ventilation when the tank is in direct sunlight.

 

[F_R]

Not supposed to leak when closed. That's so it doesn't leak in the trunk of your car.

 

[jpian0923]

The vent screw doesn't screw down all the way. I don't want to force it (that's what got me into this trouble). I'm probably just going to make a gasket from the extra gaskets that came in the carb kit.

Also, I cleaned most of the rust out of the tank. Now what? Paint? Keep it full? Spray WD40 in it once a week?