1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

tomats

Seaman Apprentice
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I have an 81 90 Evinrude V4.

Here's the deal.

I've had it for about a year now and it always ran well, until...

2nd to last trip I did not open the vent on a 6 gallon plastic tank and I sucked it in good, really good, by the time I vented it the motor was already showing signs of hesitation.

I rebuilt the fuel pump a few months back (prior to this incident) and no problems since,again until i did this.

Boat (18' Stracraft mariner cc) ran at 5500 rpm, top out at 40 mph and has 120 psi in all cylinders.

I am wondering if this amount of vacuum from sucking in the tank could rupture something like the fuel pump diaphram.

Here's what happend on the last trip yesterday.

Hard start, but typical when I trailer it long distances, and I learned on other posts I need to push the key and hold it a little longer than I usually do to prime the fuel.

Once started it ran fine at low idle and I ran low speed for about 10 min. I got to the mouth of the harbor, throttled up and every mariners worst nightmare stall in the mouth of the narrow harboe entrance to the ocean in 7-8 foot swell and 12 knot winds, luckily it restarted immediately and I was able to limp it out past the jaws.

Ran around fine at low or near idle speeds but taching erradically tried to get on plane would throttle up, pop, and slowly or very slowly die. Not sure what the pop sound is but think its going into or out of gear.

Priming the fuel bulb (which is brand new, 1st use) seemed to help or delay the inevitible stall.

Limped back to the dock and pulled the hood and found the following,

I am getting a little fuel leaking out of the manual start switch solenoid schrader valve, the cap is on the valve and switched to the run (not manual) position.

I can hear a very faint pin hole like air leak near the fuel hose connection point on the outboard and don't think its near the fuel pump, but could be.

And the very last kicker to make it more interesting the contol would not shift into forward gear, it was all or nothing slam into forward and hold on tight!.
 

dwco5051

Commander
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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

I can hear a very faint pin hole like air leak near the fuel hose connection point on the outboard and don't think its near the fuel pump, but could be.

This would be a good place to start fixing. If you can hear what probably is a vacuum leak it is a good size leak. If you are sucking air instead of all fuel it could explain the conditions you described.
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

Did you take your compression readings after you had the fuel tank incident?
 

dwco5051

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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

Did you take your compression readings after you had the fuel tank incident?

Good idea since if you were indeed running it too lean the motor may have some internal damage.
 

tomats

Seaman Apprentice
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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

Good idea since if you were indeed running it too lean the motor may have some internal damage.

What sort of internal damage would you suspect? It still starts, runs and idles well at low speed. The gapless plugs are a little wet with dark oil/fuel on them so I am thinking its been running a little rich I use 50:1 and 91 octane.
 

dwco5051

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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

What sort of internal damage would you suspect? It still starts, runs and idles well at low speed. The gapless plugs are a little wet with dark oil/fuel on them so I am thinking its been running a little rich I use 50:1 and 91 octane.

If it was starving for fuel at high rpm's burnt pistons, rings scoring cylinder walls is a possibilty. Poor fuel delivery will not show up always at idle speed but can affect high speed running. As mentioned above check compression. Your description of what happened makes be think your were leaning out at high speed. Repair the leak at the quick connector on the fuel line and if the compression tests were good everyting may be ok. The high vacuum caused by the vent not being open could have damaged an already old and brittle O ring in the connector. The fact that you said manually pumping the primer bulb seemed to make it run better also points to fuel problems. Also stalling when advancing the throttle unless you reved it high and slammed it into gear is another thing that makes me think of fuel problems.

Good luck and lets hope that the problem can be easily resolved.
 

tomats

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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

Here's an update ...

Compression is 125, 120, 115, 120

here is what the plugs look like, maybe running too rich? piston heads also looked wet no carbon build up noticed

View attachment 122412

The manual start solenoid (not sure what its real name is) spews fuel when I push the key in to prime and when I pump the bulb in both the manual and run positions.
this thing.. not sure if thats a crack or that gap is supposed to be there

View attachment 122413

Anyone know if this can be rebuilt or is it a new part, and what the name is.

Thanks,

Rob
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
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11,551
Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

The compression readings look ok. That's the good news. Unless you are running the engine WOT, your plugs may look a little wet. Those engines run a little rich at idle. Unfortunately, the attached pictures did not come out. Your fuel primer solenoid should not spew fuel. You can purchase inexpensive parts to overhaul those fuel solenoids from any Bombardier dealer.
 

tomats

Seaman Apprentice
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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

hopefully this works
 

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tomats

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
31
Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

The compression readings look ok. That's the good news. Unless you are running the engine WOT, your plugs may look a little wet. Those engines run a little rich at idle. Unfortunately, the attached pictures did not come out. Your fuel primer solenoid should not spew fuel. You can purchase inexpensive parts to overhaul those fuel solenoids from any Bombardier dealer.

Late follow-up:

I wound up getting a Sierra primer solenoid rebuild kit and that fixed the fuel leak problem, I still had some hard starting issues after boat was trailered a short distance. I decided to just rip the carbs off and rebuild them, so did that and still wouldn't start quite right, but throttle response was immense so at least it was looking promising. Started hunting and found a crack in one of the recirculation lines behind the solenoid, so I am guessing it was never priming and therefore hard to start. What puzzles me is that there seems to be two different types of hoses on the recirc system. The bottom cylinders have 1/16" lines running back to nipples under the carbs on the front, and the tops have what appear to be vacuum lines with T-connectors running back to the fuel solenoid. Figure I will just replace everything in there but does anyone know if the lines a are all the same and am I safe if I just run fuel grade lines all around? Or should I replace the vacuum lines with different hoses. The vacuum lines look slightly larger I.D. then 1/16" but the nipples on the crankcase look the same?
 

emdsapmgr

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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

You are running the wrong plugs. The ones in the picture are gapless plugs, typically found on the V6 crossflows. You need a tip plug, QL77JC4-that's what the factory recommends. It's much easier to read the QL77JC4 plugs. You can't get an accurate reading on the gapless plugs. Having said that, the plug looks "normal"-after idling. Possible the powerhead/engine may not be the year you think. The factory originally mounted your fuel primer solenoid on the top of the airbox. Not sure that the 81 engines had that recirc system on them. That system came out in the late 80's. Maybe you are seeing the fuel primer hoses (choke.) Around that year, the fuel primer (choke) hoses were routed direct to the bypass covers on the side of the engine. The recirc and fuel primer hoses should be the same, part number: 772568. Good that you are taking care of the hose leaks. It's really hard to start if the primer solenoid is not working. Any hose/air leak can affect engine running/idling.
 

tomats

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Messages
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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

Thanks! I didn't know that about the plugs, but just looked it up and you're right. Guy before me used to run it in the ocean, so guessing he thought the gapless was better for running WOT. I have since changed them to the correct plugs. You do have me wondering about the block now..
 

emdsapmgr

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Re: 1981 90 V4 fuel/vacuum issue? I'm stumped

I doubt sucking the tank to the extent that it deforms caused any real problem. When the tank gets so deformed that it finally inhibits engine running, then damage can occur. You probably did not run it much once the engine started to act up. A weak fuel pump would not suck a tank to point of deforming. Agree-get that hose leak fixed. An air leak in the fuel system will lean out the fuel to the carbs, and that could cause a problem.
 
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