1986 Force '85

[tw0st3p]

Just bought a 1986 Bayliner 1600 Capri Bowrider with an 85 Force. I am completely new to boating (other than enjoying them with a beer in my hand), however I am pretty mechanically inclined.

The boat was last registered in 2004, and I cannot guarantee it has ever been run since then, or even attempted to start since. Everything about the boat appears to be clean, including the engine, however I am just not too sure where to start.

Previous owners said the only thing keeping it from running was the carbs were 'out of alignment' assuming he means out of adjustment, however when we signed the title the wife said something about the thing not running right since they 'got drunk and messed with the sprocket things'.

I only paid $500 bucks for the thing trailer and all so I figure at worst I got a real expensive flower planter, however I would like to try and get this thing back into operating shape. Where do I start?

Ive been lurking on this forum for the last few days as I mulled this over and thought I might as well buy the thing expecting to have to buy a new engine and hoping I wouldnt.

Is there some sort of checklist of things I need to do before I even attempt turning this bad boy over? I am really anxious to get a compression tester on it, as I am hoping against hope I get some decent readings.

peace

andy

 

[TWFisher]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Congrats on the purchase.

I'd suggest going to the FAQ section and searching a post by JB called Awaging a Sleeping Engine...

You'll also want to get a manual soon.

And to save your self some major heart ache, DO NOT pull the shift pivot pin, the lower unit drain is at the very bottom of the lu not on the side. Search it and you'll understand why.

Good luck!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force '85

GET A MANUAL!!!!!!
Charge the battery.Do a comp check FIRST!!Check for spark.Check the oil in the lower unit. Don't remove the shift pin,drain the oil and check for metal chunks and shavings.If all checks out change the impeller. Good luck,J

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Since you don't know what you have, before turning the engine, even by hand, spray some oil into the cylinders and let it sit for a day. Then turn the engine in the direction of rotation a few times by hand.

Next, when you get a manual, change the lower oil.

Set your carb mixture screws to 1 1/8 turn out, put new fuel/oil mix in the tank, make sure the battery is charged, hook up the water hose and try to start it. Immediately look for water coming out the two holes in the middle of the leg. If water is not coming out, shut down immediately and change the water pump.

This will at least let you know if it runs. If it does, get back to us.

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Thanks for all of this good info, I am starting to get an idea of what steps I need to prepare for.

Regarding the compression check, I have seen some people on here stating that I need to disconnect the coil packs or something similar to that so that I do not fry them. Does this sounds correct?

Also regarding the manual I have seen some people say OEM is the way to go and others have mentioned a couple of other brands, SELOC being of them I believe, whats my best option here?

Thanks

Andy

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

For the coils, buy a cheap set of jumper wires from Radio Shack and clip them to the spark plug leads and to ground so you do not ruin your CDI units while timing the engine.

As to manuals, quality from best to worse is OEM, Clymer, Seloc.

Regards,

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

would this be the correct OEM Force outboard manual for my 1986 85HP Force?


thanks

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Update: Ive got the manual ordered and it should be here in a day or so. Ive got a water pump kit ordered as well, and I will be getting 3 carb rebuild kits when I get the manual and can find out what model carb kits I need. Lower end oil will be changed when I get the manual as well, I am not too keen on pulling stuff apart until I get a manual to rescue me when I get stumped.

I attempted to perform a compression check however I am unable to get the engine to do anything more than a very very slow crank. It's almost as if the battery is dead, however I know thats not the case. I think my problem lies in the termination method on the battery terminals, the terminal posts are too big for the ends on the boat ignition so I only had a shady connection at best (jumper cables from battery posts to boat ignition cables which probably wont work). I am able to turn the flywheel by hand relatively easily and feel some compression with the plugs in and the starter seems to be kicking over and engaging fairly well.

I am using a plain old car battery in all of this with about 450 cranking amps. Should that be sufficient current to turn this bad boy over, barring any poor connection issues?

At this point im thinking its got to either be poor battery connection or the starter, and Im leaning towards the battery connection. Am I on the right track with this or missing something by chance?

Thanks

Andy

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Get an assistant and do the following with a voltmeter.
Make sure you remove your plug wires and ground them to prevent the engine from starting and also any damage to your CDI units.

1. Put the voltmeter on the battery, crank the engine and record the voltage.

2. Put the red voltmeter lead on the solinoid red wire coming from the battery and the black to ground. Crank the engine and record the voltage.

3. Put the red voltmeter lead on the big red wire at the starter and the black lead to ground. Crank the engine and record the voltage.

This will give us an idea of the voltage drop in your starting system. Make sure you are starting with a fully charged battery. You do not have to crank long, a couple of turns are fine.

Regards,

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Thanks for all the help so far guys, Ive got what I think is good news. Got the slow crank figured out, just poor battery connection. I got it turning over real well and ran a compression check and here are my results.

Cylinder 1 = 115 psi
Cylinder 2 = 120 psi
Cylinder 3 = 120 psi

Ive also got the OEM manual in hand as well as a water pump kit that I am going to be putting on tomorrow. I will also be replacing the lower unit oil.

After all of this is complete what else should I check before I try and fire it up. I am thinking I will buy a new trash can and fill it with water and use that rather than the muffs.

Again, thanks for the continued help.

Andy

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Muffs work fine if you get the heavy duty ones that pump water from both sides.

If you didn't get a new fuel pump diaphram, you should as they deteriorate with age.

Before you start it, make sure you have the carb/timing sync set correctly. This is pretty much step by step in the book. After that, adjust your idle mixture and idle speed. Start with the mixture screws out 11/8 and follow the book from there.

If you haven't figured this out yet, boat maintenance is really never ending.

Regards,

John

 

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

I bought a used OEM manual off of ebay, they often go cheap and have the right info.

I'm new to Force with my Capri. But I have to say its been a pleasure to work on. Everything is easy to access and remove.

Best to run the motor with the lower unit in a trash can full of water rather than on the muffs. It will run cooler longer. And the 85hp fires up with just a bump of the starter. Nice motor, just a little dated and not high tech.

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Good info, I think Ill go with the trash can full of water. I am sans-trash can since this winter when a city plow truck flattened my trash can, I need one any ways. Figured id just buy one for the engine tuning then when thats done ill use it for trash.

Andy

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Good luck finding a trash can big enough to get that cav plate in. I use a storage tote from k mart but I only use it at the end of the season.

John

 

[NYForce]

Re: 1986 Force '85

stock tank from tractor supply works good

 

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Thanks for all the help so far guys, Ive got what I think is good news. Got the slow crank figured out, just poor battery connection. I got it turning over real well and ran a compression check and here are my results.

Cylinder 1 = 115 psi
Cylinder 2 = 120 psi
Cylinder 3 = 120 psi

Ive also got the OEM manual in hand as well as a water pump kit that I am going to be putting on tomorrow. I will also be replacing the lower unit oil.

After all of this is complete what else should I check before I try and fire it up. I am thinking I will buy a new trash can and fill it with water and use that rather than the muffs.

Again, thanks for the continued help.

Andy

Mine reads 120 on each cylinder. I think the manual states the compression should be 150!!!! I'm going to sea foam it and see if the compression rises. But because the compression is even across all holes, I doubt it will make a difference. Most compression reading I see posted are 120-130 psi range.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Mine are all 150 on my '85 85hp and I have checked it with two gages. I seafoam at the end of each season so maybe that makes the difference.

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Makin progress...water pump/impeller is installed. New lower unit oil is in, the old stuff looked brand new so thats good news.

Couple questions. I have been working on getting it running now, in a big tub of water. After the engine sits for a day or two it requires a quick shot of starter fluid in the carbs to get it to finally fire up, and then it quickly dies. Choke it and turn it over and itll run a bit longer then die. It seems to progressively run longer and longer before dying, however I can rarely get it started without choking it, I can crank for a while without choke and it wont fire but immediately when I hit the choke it fires. I have held off on installing a carb kit thus far as I wanted to try and get a bit of a baseline as to where I am. Spark is good, however I will be replacing the plugs this weekend just to be on the safe side.

Couple of setup notes, the manual says to seat the idle screws then back them out 1 1/4 turn each and then fire it up and put it in gear at the lowest reliable throttle setting and then lean it out until it begins to pop. I am running 93 octane with a 50:1 mixture.

1. Is it ok to put the boat in gear and give it a bit of throttle with no prop on in a big tub of water?

2. The carbs are a WE9-1 and two WE9-2's. I cannot seem to find a carb kit for these models, any ideas?

3. Any other suggestions?

Sorry for the long post, and again thanks for all your help guys.

Andy

 

[eight tracker]

Re: 1986 Force '85

sounds like the fuel pump on the motor may have a bad diaphram so its not pumping fuel into the carbs,or the carbs are all varnished -up so nothing is getting to the carbs.When you squeese the rpimer bulb does it get firmer the more you squeeze it?

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

yeah the primer bulb is definitely filling up, also failed to mention that when I choke the engine gas pours out all of the carbs?